Friday, October 12, 2007

Prayer, sleep and vile vile work.




Morning chumlies, and what a difference 6 hours sleep can make to a gal's humour. Why I had to spend almost one hour on the phone earlier and I didn't snap or snarl or disinfect my hands once. Huzzah.
And how odd that there should be a brouhaha brewing in Carlow over whether a council meeting should have the Our Father said before it convenes to discuss council meeting. It really got quite heated on Brenda Power's show earlier with the pro-prayer dude claiming that prayer helped folk make decisions and could stop blood and all manner of things and the anti-prayer chap saying prayer had no place at a council meeting.
Are we that secular? Does it do any harm? I can't make up my mind about it. I'm agnostic and don't for a moment believe in the power of prayer, but I allow that for others it is a source of peace and comfort so why would I object to it? MY mother often claims she's going to pray for me, I couldn't care less, it's rather like her saying she's going to plant daffodils for me out the back of her house.
Maybe I'm wrong though, I frequently am. I mean I hate reiki and that's a form of prayer, but a commercial version. Can I hold an undiminished and implacable hatred for reiki and yet be indifferent to a prayer before a meeting?
What do we think? Would reciting a prayer before a meeting skeeve you out completely or would you hold a benign tolerance for it?

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31 Comments:

Anonymous Babs said...

I am of the "no prayers" variety. Not that I think preyers are bad, I think that for the people who believe in them, they can bring a lot of peace of mind and that, but why subject all of the meeting attendees to a prayer, unless of course they want it. If I was at a council meeting and they started doing the old Our Father I would be asking questions as to where we were, in a meeting..or in a prayer meeting! I was brought up with no religion due to my parents being mixed marraige (shock horror) so therefore we could not be Christened unless one of them dissed their own religion and jumped on board another, so they decided to let us choose whenever we wanted, I am still undecided. I was allowed to not participate in religion class in school and all, it was cool, especially when I was 5 and was allowed to draw pictures instead of learn about the bible, my classmates were very jealous!!

12:10 p.m.  
Blogger Conan Drumm said...

Why stop at the Pater Noster? What about some verses of the Quran? And we really should say it in the official first language as well. Oh, and we should also have a bit of the Torah thrown in for good measure. In Hebrew, English and Irish, of course. And a multilingual reading from the Bardo Thodol for our Buddhist friends...

"Er, we seem to have run out of time for the agenda. The planning, water and sewerage issues are put back to next month's meeting. In the meantime can someone get the following Shinto ritual translated into Irish?"

I'm agin it...

12:19 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

When I was younger I was very intolerant of religion I must say, but the older I get the less if bothers me, unless it interferes directly with my day to day living.
But then recently I was having a conversation with the paramour over our future imaginary children and the subject of baptism came up. And I said, 'well why would be bother? We're not religious.'- and he said, 'well I suppose you do it for the family really.' And I said, 'erm, they're not overly religious either( Even my mother who likes to wax on about prayer and spiritual stuff goes to mass about once a year.)
And then it ocurred to me that to get our future imaginary children into a school over here they mght need to be RC or we are at a considerable disadvantage.
So, that is irksome.

12:23 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Conan darling we crossed, that was brought up, pro- prayer dude was saying 'we're all christian!' To which I thought, or are are you.....(spongebob voice)

12:24 p.m.  
Blogger Conan Drumm said...

Yup, the god's-on-OUR-side crowd have the franchise on education, especially at primary level where they can prevent new schools being established in the franchise area (ie the parish). Get your constitutional case underway before you conceive, it will take that long at least. Maybe Mickey McD would take it on pro bono, as they say.

12:29 p.m.  
Blogger Andraste said...

I'm in the 'no prayer' camp as well. Big surprise there, I know. Maybe I'm backlashing from our shit-for-brains president trying to turn us into a theocracy. First we allow prayer into state meetings, next it's EXPECTED at every secular event, regardless of the religious leanings, or lack of, for all present. Talk about a slippery slope!

I'm against it!

12:43 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Quite right. If only you could have been my sister and not Etheline, my world would have burned that bit brighter.

12:47 p.m.  
Blogger gimme a minute said...

We got a two for one baptism deal on the Bridge Crew when Riker was about to start school. They were quite specific in their demand for a cert.

I wanted to buy one off the interweb, but Common Law vetoed that plan.

The spoilsport.

12:49 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

That bothers me. What if you couldn't have provided a cert?

1:29 p.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

Ahh I’d be on the fence about religion myself but I help manage an under 10 football team (not out of the goodness off my heart mind just because my mate fooked off to oz for a year) and before all the big matches we say a prayer, even some weeks when I’m left on my tod I still do it, don’t know why but if it gives the little nippers some structure and guidance well then game on.

I know two people who didn’t have their little dudes baptised and where both told it was a Catholic School no baptism no admission. Seems fair enough.

1:51 p.m.  
Blogger gimme a minute said...

There's no non-Catholic school in our area. I'm not into superstition and neither is Common Law and yet we are forced to deny this fact in front of our friends, family and indeed children and in order to secure an education for said children.

It's not really that 'fair enough' is it?

2:06 p.m.  
Blogger Dr. James McInerney said...

I'm all in favour of Conan's suggestion, but only if they include the one true church.

2:18 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Screw that Docky2, his noodly appendage is only used for eeeeevil.

2:20 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

What about just a moment of silence? Pray if you want or not. Simple.
When we had considered kids I told Mr. M it was easier to raise them as something and then let them scorn it later like many people. I was afraid if we made a big deal they would rebel and become born again or something.

2:38 p.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

No non catholic schools in your area?, that is strange, it was my understanding that a significant number of Dublin’s constituencies have non-denomination schools but leaving that completely aside, most Catholic Schools are funded by the Sate unless they are run and funded solely by the Catholic Church the schools itself is in no position to discriminate, it would be unconstitutional and at odds with the Equal Status Acts (2000-2004) to deny a child an education based on their religious believes. So Gimmie if you really don't want to subject your child to religion you don't have.

2:39 p.m.  
Blogger gimme a minute said...

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Nonny.

Too late though. They've been Holy Watered and now belong to Jebus. Hopefully He'll provide them with the guidance and structure that I could be arsed getting together myself.

2:52 p.m.  
Blogger gimme a minute said...

Always with the Freudian typos. I meant of course 'could not be arsed'.

3:00 p.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

Ah sure your better of, it will do them no harm and anyway when the make their Communions and Confirmations, they make a fortune these days. You can tell their little hopeful faces you are “minding” it for them.

3:06 p.m.  
Blogger Sam, Problem-Child-Bride said...

There was a study in the US that made headlines last year. It was to do with the power of prayer. They looked at the outcomes of thousands of people in the hospital when their church and friends prayed for theri recovery.

The result was that prayer made things slightly worse for the patient. Not only did it not seem to help even one paracetamol's worth, it actually made things worse!

3:45 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

I remember reading about that, Sam.
I was given the last rites in the hospital after a really bad car accident when I was 17. I was unconscious at the time in ICU. When I found out at later, I screamed at my mother who claimed that it helped "heal" me, especially my ear which had been shredded.
Apparently not.

4:00 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

She was probably concerned more for your immortal soul than your ear Medbh. My Gamma despised the church and refused point blank to have a priest to the house when her husband died. Caused quite a local scandal it did too. My mother was outraged. But, as Gamma said, if gramps had wanted one there he might have thought to mention it before he died.

5:46 p.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

Your Grandmother rocks, I love rebels. I can image her going about her business and all the locals flashing fake smiles and bitching about her as soon as she’d passed heh he I’d say she laughed most heartedly about it. I love it.

6:03 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I doubt she gave a toss what they said. She was a staunch sort of woman. She used to go to mass-and this is the odd thing-weighted down in a moth eaten fur and reeking of perfume and then leave half way through it, or just as folk were going up to get the holy communion.
I think she just liked mischief. Certainly she liked annoying the hell out of my mother.

6:13 p.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

I grew up in the "countyside" of Dublin, there was and still is only one school, so they sort of had to take us, and then I went to a non denominational secondary school, so I think I was luckyish, though the only reason I went to that secondary school is because it was mixed and there wasn't a chance I was going all girls, my sister christened her daughter for her husbands family, who since I have known them (about 14 years) have never ever gone to mass apart from for other peoples weddings and christenings and the odd funeral, but that argument has already been had, yes, I called her a hypocrite, but then I was allowed to be the babys god mother somehow, the priest bent the rules when he saw me with her, and said "ah sure its grand, I would much rather Babs be her spiritual guide than someone who wouldn't see her that often" so I was happy with that. I coined myself a title "The Non-God Mammy"!!

10:28 p.m.  
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