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Taken from this morning's Independent.
"Two teenagers arrested for running a cocaine factory were merely acting as "minders" for a drugs gang, it has emerged.
The two 15-year-olds were found carrying €15,000 of the drug while walking on the street in Clondalkin, and a follow-up search of a house uncovered a cocaine-mixing factory containing €55,000 of the drug.
According to garda sources, the two teenagers were not responsible for the factory but were looking after it for a drugs gang.
The two boys, one from Tallaght and the other from Clondalkin, were detained overnight by gardai last Saturday and were released into the custody of their parents the next day.
A file on the case is being sent to the DPP.
The cocaine-mixing factory was located in a house in the Newlands Manor Estate, a gated development of townhouses and duplexes which was only built in 2001. It is located beside the Green Isle Hotel and is around one mile from Clondalkin village.
Local Labour councillor Robert Dowds said he had received reports in recent months of people being asked to store drugs by pushers.
"When their houses are raided, they are the ones who actually have the drugs. It can have appalling consequences for individuals."
Some people may have been intimidated into accepting the drugs, while others were doing it for money, he added.
Mr Dowds called for a national debate on drugs to examine ways of reducing the demand for them, including the possibility of legalising some drugs.
"I hate the idea of people taking drugs but I think everything should be looked at," he said."
I was shocked to read this, 15 is the same age as the little Goth Kid.
What the hell?
Mr Dowd must be smoking the old weed himself if he think legalising 'some drugs' are going to do anything at all to reduce the demand for them. Which drungs are okay? Coke, Heroin, Grass? Will it be decided by weight? Purity? Personal use?
If it is legal to, say, carry a gram of coke on your person-for personal use, how convenient does that make it for the dealer? Now suddenly his product might be legally carried, in the right dosage of course. He can divide his goods up among a whole slew of young lads, to sell. Hey, it's legal right?*
If the shooting of poor Anthony Campbell has shown us anything, it is that people dealing in drugs don't respect any law, any right, not even the most basic right to life. And because of that they should be hounded until they have no place to run and no place to hide. Driving a Lexus? Where did the money come from? Living in a nice apartment, who pays the rent? Go abroad four times a year? Who's paying for it? Living a great life on the dole? Bring in the CAB, check just who or what is paying for the lavish lifestyle.
Use Rudy Giuliani's 'broken window' as a starter. Don't ignore the small stuff, start with it. If the dealers step out of line, even by parking in the wrong zone, act. Step up the pressure. Make it so uncomfortable for them to ply their trade that they wonder is it worth it. You will always have the men and women who just don't give a shit, but maybe you can effect the thinking of those coming up, the kids who see these fuckers driving around in their swank cars with gobs of cash, and are impressed and want to be part of that life.
It is not hard to impress a teenager. We need, as a society, to stop letting our youth see the criminal life as a viable option to escaping poverty.
The last thing this country needs is a Councillor like Dowd softening his stance.
*before anyone points out that they might be a slight whiff of the hypocrite from this post. Any and all drug taking I did in my misspent youth is firmly shuddered over and I reserve the right to have grown the fuck up and hold different opinions now that I am in my thirties. Even then I didn't think it should be legal, If I was caught It was my own stupid fault.
Taken from this morning's Independent.
"Two teenagers arrested for running a cocaine factory were merely acting as "minders" for a drugs gang, it has emerged.
The two 15-year-olds were found carrying €15,000 of the drug while walking on the street in Clondalkin, and a follow-up search of a house uncovered a cocaine-mixing factory containing €55,000 of the drug.
According to garda sources, the two teenagers were not responsible for the factory but were looking after it for a drugs gang.
The two boys, one from Tallaght and the other from Clondalkin, were detained overnight by gardai last Saturday and were released into the custody of their parents the next day.
A file on the case is being sent to the DPP.
The cocaine-mixing factory was located in a house in the Newlands Manor Estate, a gated development of townhouses and duplexes which was only built in 2001. It is located beside the Green Isle Hotel and is around one mile from Clondalkin village.
Local Labour councillor Robert Dowds said he had received reports in recent months of people being asked to store drugs by pushers.
"When their houses are raided, they are the ones who actually have the drugs. It can have appalling consequences for individuals."
Some people may have been intimidated into accepting the drugs, while others were doing it for money, he added.
Mr Dowds called for a national debate on drugs to examine ways of reducing the demand for them, including the possibility of legalising some drugs.
"I hate the idea of people taking drugs but I think everything should be looked at," he said."
I was shocked to read this, 15 is the same age as the little Goth Kid.
What the hell?
Mr Dowd must be smoking the old weed himself if he think legalising 'some drugs' are going to do anything at all to reduce the demand for them. Which drungs are okay? Coke, Heroin, Grass? Will it be decided by weight? Purity? Personal use?
If it is legal to, say, carry a gram of coke on your person-for personal use, how convenient does that make it for the dealer? Now suddenly his product might be legally carried, in the right dosage of course. He can divide his goods up among a whole slew of young lads, to sell. Hey, it's legal right?*
If the shooting of poor Anthony Campbell has shown us anything, it is that people dealing in drugs don't respect any law, any right, not even the most basic right to life. And because of that they should be hounded until they have no place to run and no place to hide. Driving a Lexus? Where did the money come from? Living in a nice apartment, who pays the rent? Go abroad four times a year? Who's paying for it? Living a great life on the dole? Bring in the CAB, check just who or what is paying for the lavish lifestyle.
Use Rudy Giuliani's 'broken window' as a starter. Don't ignore the small stuff, start with it. If the dealers step out of line, even by parking in the wrong zone, act. Step up the pressure. Make it so uncomfortable for them to ply their trade that they wonder is it worth it. You will always have the men and women who just don't give a shit, but maybe you can effect the thinking of those coming up, the kids who see these fuckers driving around in their swank cars with gobs of cash, and are impressed and want to be part of that life.
It is not hard to impress a teenager. We need, as a society, to stop letting our youth see the criminal life as a viable option to escaping poverty.
The last thing this country needs is a Councillor like Dowd softening his stance.
*before anyone points out that they might be a slight whiff of the hypocrite from this post. Any and all drug taking I did in my misspent youth is firmly shuddered over and I reserve the right to have grown the fuck up and hold different opinions now that I am in my thirties. Even then I didn't think it should be legal, If I was caught It was my own stupid fault.
posted by fatmammycat at 10:59 a.m.
121 Comments:
This Dowd of whom you speak is obviously a member of the legalise-and-tax-the-shit-out-of-it brigade. The licensed vintners should lead the way on this and sign up would-be new licencees for new hash, coke, acid and smack divisions. Between excise and VAT the revenue'd be in for, say, something well north of €500m a year. That'd allow another slice off the income tax rate/bands and cut down on gun crime. Moyross and Finglas would became havens of calm and serenity.
You reckon? Maybe they could provide hole in the wall coke dispensers. Slip your money in an it comes out all wrapped up nice like.
In the super market when we pay for our groceries with credit cards they can ask 'do you want coke back with that?'
Huzzah's all round, the dealers would be out of business in no time and everyone would love Bertie for another few years.
I'd agree with legalising soft drugs. There is some argument on if it worked in Amsterdam or not, but I've found Amsterdam to be one of the safest cities to walk round. There is a big difference between a lot of very stoned people and a lot of very drunk people when it comes to fights on the street in the early hours and broken bottles being thrown.
Also, why is grass illegal, since if we do go and enforce this law, over half of the 18 - 35 age group would be arrested, for smoking or having smoked it. When the majority take drugs of some form or another then the law is a waste of time. You either arrest everyone or legalise it.
Legalising it gives quality control, as in no more coke cut with drain cleaner, and huge huge tax revenues. If people want to take drugs they should be able to, should be able to get drugs that have some standards, and not have some nanny state stopping them. Just because some priest way back when drank alcohol rather than smoked a joint we have legal alcohol and illegal drugs and our morally correct state upholds this.
If you legalize cocaine and heroin what do you think the state of play would be Gerry? What age group would be affected most do you think? WE already ahve a problem with alcohol abuse in this country with binge drinking being a serious problem. Imagine if everyone starts od-ing with gusto on the weekend.
Hate to do it FMC, but I 100% disagree with you one this one. This is an intensely complicated subject and merely criminalizing drugs is a throwing out the baby with the bath water solution that creates more problems than it resolves. Gerry is totally on the ball.
Drugs should be totally legalised. Every last one of them. Regualate, tax and let the market sort it out. The criminals would be out of business in no time.
What you put in your own body is your own business. Prohibition has never worked. In fact it arguably makes matters much much worse. Criminalization of pot led to stronger strains in smaller plant with much more high tech growing operations and shorter growing cycles. i.e much more stronger weed. This also made it easier to ship (less bulky), the same logic led to the popularisation of cocaine, which is even less bulky. A lot less hassle for dealers to ship so a lot switched from pot to coke in the 70's. Crack was a direct result of this.
The damage done to free speech and personal property laws in the US is immense, with little affect on drug consumption rates. Not to mention he trillions of dollars spend over the drug war over the last 30 years. The damage done by criminalizing drugs far outweighs the damage done by the drugs themselves.
Not to mention the fact that alchohol and tobacco do far more damage than drugs ever do. Most studies show that drug use for most people is for a limited period of time and tapers off. However alcohol and tobacco use does not. I have seen statistics that state that the damage on all levels from alcohol far outweighs all other drugs combined. It's pretty hard to do heroin or speed regularly and go to work the next day. Not so with alcohol and tobacco. Thats a natural social wedding out process. Most people wont' take that risk.
Which leads to the final point - why do we presume that everyone will suddenly become junkies if we decriminalize? I read an article some time back that said the amount of smack addicts and the amount of heroin available do not correlate. Not even close, there is way,way, way more heroin than hardcore users, this means there are an awful lot of occasional users. We confuse addiction with usage, most people don't become addicted.
The economics, demographics and sociology of drugs are complex, but our politicians deal with complex issues with simpleton laws that cost us all dearly and help create the criminal underclass.
Taking heroin is not a good idea, but having it illegal isn't doing anything to stop it. If we want to stop drugs that way we'll have to outlaw spray cans of lynx, all forms of glue, petrol, meths, nitros oxide and a whole host of other things you can abuse.
If having drugs illegal is working and binge drinking is an issue, why is alcohol still legal?
Two words. Vintners association.
At the end of the day social pressures will have their say. Being hammered in public is not acceptable in the US, so you rarely see someone throwing up in the street. I think Americans drink a lot, but it's kept under control by society's expectations.
It is on some level still acceptable to be shit faced and obnoxious in public in the UK and Ireland. Laws will never trump societal pressures.
The Vinters association is an un offical cartel - the market is not allowed to work properly. This is something which should be tackled. They are losing power, however slowly.
That's okay John Mc, I love someone who can disagree with vim.
I see what you mean about taxing and so on, but what makes you think the bigger drug companies would be any better than the criminals? How long do you think-if thing were legal- would it be before some form of opiate was intoduced to the general ppopulace as a cure all, soft peddled and renamed for us all.
Considering the rise in perscription drugs, I feel if the true feel good drugs, 'Heroin/coke' were made legal the results would be catastrophic. I can see my mother on coke you know, 'for her weight' and frankly it send shivers down my spine.
I have a funny relationship with drugs of any sort. I'm loathe to use any form of painkiller, am against the willy nilly free for all of anti-depressants and completely against anti-biotics being issued unless ABSOLUTELY the last resort.
Conversely I used to be inclined to abuse over the counter sleeping tablets due to frequent bouts of insomnia, why? because they were so readily available.
The Vintners are a right shower. They're against cafe bars and that to me is stupid. Why can't I have a beer with my sambo if I want. I lived for years in Spain and it was thus, I actually think it reduces the 'must drink must get drunk' mentality if you can have a civilised beer with your food whenever it suits you.
But the drug companies have had legal opiate like substances for ages - valium, Vicadin (hydracodone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicadin).
How about diet pills containing ephedrine ?
Most of these drugs are open to abuse but also have great benefits. I really liked the vVcadin high when I screwed up my neck, but I was much more fond of the relief from the intense pain.
Re pain killers, of course they are abused, but it is better, (especially if you are athletic), to reduce inflammation by taking some ibuprofen occasionally, rather than suffering the effects of being constantly inflamed.
The question is why is one chemical compound illegal while one with a slightly varying structure legal ? Especially if both are addictive, (Vicadin is highly addictive).
Humans have been getting high since they first crawled out of the primordial soup. There are an endless list of compounds which will get you there, so criminalizing is ridiculous.
No offence but your "abuse" of sleeping pills is your own issue, that doesn't mean that they should be made illegal for everyone.
There is substantial evidence that criminalizing LSD and Ecstasy killed very promising research into clinical uses of these substances. Criminals given low doses of acid in controlled environments, showed much lower recidivists rates, alcoholics also responded well to acid treatments, and ecstasy is believed to massively help people undergoing therapy for post traumatic stress. Whether any of these would have panned out in the real world is debatable, but we won't know, because the hysteria about drugs prevented it.
No offense taken, I did say I have an odd relationship with drugs. And it was down to the amazingly over the counterness of them that I let loose.
Vicadin is prescription right? Same as Xanax?
Yup it's prescription, (thankfully, I liked it a LOT), but only had it for 3 weeks. It's really easy to get over here, almost everyone I know has had it prescribed of something. My wife got the super dooper stuff after one of the kids births.
BTW I totally agree with you about drinking in cafe's being legal. That defies all common sense and logic.
In 1906 in Canada (and probably lots of other places too),
marijuana, heroin, and morphine were all available over the counter at the local corner drugstores. Back then pharmacists said, "Heroin clears the complexion, gives buoyancy to the mind, regulates the stomach and bowels, and is, in fact, a perfect guardian of health."
At the time, alcohol was prohibited.
Snarf, Anna. I wonder did it help with 'the vapours'.
If someone presents me with a choice of having a pint or a spliff, I'll take a spliff everytime.
Blow, dope, weed or whatever you want to call it, has much less social consequences than alcohol. Alcohol makes people fight, makes them aggressive, makes them do stupid things. Smoking weed just makes you want to listen to Bob Marley and the Wailers and eat the entire contents of your fridge.
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No no no. Have you ever tried talking to someone who's a bit of a stoner. It's like talking to a sea sponge, or a jar of marmalade. I like drinking, it makes me animated and in good form, not fighty.
John McC.,
Didn't realise Dr. Martin Luther King was on diet pills when he made THAT speech!
'I ephedrine...little white children and little black children, usw., usw.'
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