A necessary abortion
"There is no cure or standard treatment for anencephaly and the prognosis for affected individuals is poor. Most anencephalic babies do not survive birth, accounting for 55% of non-aborted cases. If the infant is not stillborn, then he or she will usually die within a few hours or days after birth from cardiorespiratory arrest.
In almost all cases anencephalic infants are not aggressively resuscitated since there is no chance of the infant ever achieving a conscious existence. Instead, the usual clinical practice is to offer hydration, nutrition and comfort measures and to "let nature take its course". Artificial ventilation, surgery (to fix any co-existing congenital defects), and drug therapy (such as antibiotics) are usually regarded as being pointless. Some clinicians see no point in even providing nutrition and hydration, arguing that euthanasia is morally and clinically appropriate in such cases."
Remember this will you? It's important.
Oh the HSE aren't available on the weekend to care for a man and perhaps prevent him murdering his family and then killing himself, no sir, but for a girl trying to end a pregnancy which carries no hope for her unborn child and they're right on the ball. Ready to do battle at all cost.
Observe, from today's Irish Independent.
"A 17-year-old teenager whose baby will not survive after birth has gone to court to stop the HSE preventing her travelling to the UK for an abortion.
In a landmark case, the teenager, who is currently in care, is seeking to challenge directions by the HSE stopping her from travelling outside the State for an abortion.
Pregnant minors, in the care of the state, are currently only allowed to travel abroad to have an abortion if the mother's life is at risk, including the threat of suicide.
But this case could result in making the grounds for having a termination widened to include foetal abnormality.
This issue has never been tested in the Irish courts and legal experts fear it could have the potential to precipitate a fresh constitutional crisis.
The case looks set to reopen the divisive debate over abortion, just three weeks before the general election. And the Government parties fear the hearing - which has been dubbed the 'D-case' - could potentially provoke another backlash from voters.
The coalition only narrowly survived the political fallout which followed its disastrous handling of the A-Case when the Supreme Court struck down our statuatory rape laws.
In the wake of the X ruling by the Supreme Court in 1992, a number of cases were brought of behalf of minors seeking to travel to the UK to terminate their pregnancies.
After the C-Case, the High Court ruled that a child in care could only travel for an abortion if her life was at risk.
Yesterday the 17-year-old girl, who is four months pregnant and from the Leinster region, was supported by her boyfriend in the High Court.
Mr Justice Liam McKechnie ordered the media not to identify her.
She is to be known only as Miss D.
The court heard claims that the HSE had notified gardai and asked them to ensure she did not try and leave the country.
She has discovered that the foetus she is carrying suffers from the condition anencephaly where a major part of its brain is missing.
Infants with such a condition are born without a forebrain and the thinking part of the brain and are usually blind, deaf, unconscious and unable to feel pain.
Miss D's lawyer told the High Court the prognosis and life expectancy for a baby with such a condition after birth is a maximum of three days.
Gerard Hogan SC said that up until the "unfortunate news" last week, there was no question of a termination and this has only arisen in the last few days.
Mr Justice Liam McKechnie was told the girl is in care as a result of an order made by the District Court under the Chid Care Act 1991 at the start of April.
She has claimed she has been advised by the HSE that the gardai have been notified that she is not permitted to leave the State and the care order makes it unlawful for her to leave the State without HSE permission.
The care order had been put in place as a result of the conduct of the girl's mother.
Her father has been absent from her life.
The proceedings in which the girl is seeking leave to bring a High Court legal challenge to the directions of the HSE have been brought by the girl's boyfriend on behalf of the 17-year old.
The girl is seeking leave to seek an order from the High Court quashing the care order made by a District Justice to the extent that it restricts her from travelling from the State.
She is also seeking an order quashing the decision of the HSE to contact the gardai to request that she not be permitted to leave the State.
In the judicial review proceedings against the District Justice, the HSE and Ireland and the Attorney General, the girl is also seeking an order quashing the decision of the HSE refusing to permit her to travel to procure the termination of her pregnancy unless she presented as a suicide risk.
In the proceedings, the girl is also seeking a court order directing the HSE to advise the gardai that they consent to her travelling to the UK. She is also seeking a declaration that there is no lawful basis for interference with her right to terminate her pregnancy.
She claims the HSE decision to prevent her leaving the State to procure a termination of her pregnancy constitutes an unlawful interference with her constitutional rights to personal autonomy, bodily integrity, private life and to travel."
It is bad enough in this country that we export out problems rather than dal with them, but to stop a young woman from ending a pregnancy that WILL result in a deformed baby that WILL die strikes me as barbaric.
Cui Bono here? The mother who must carry this pregnancy for another 24 weeks? Who must go through the agony of birth knowing the result? The unborn fetus? Who will know nothing and die within hours of being delivered? Who is this ruling supposed to benefit?
Despite what some people think there is a grey area to abortion. It is not a black and white issue. Yes, abortion is too common (in my view) and yes I have my questions about it.
But in this case I have none.
There is no happy outcome to this case, there will be no Hallmark moments. Just another long drawn out legal quagmire where the rights of women and logic and compassion are thrown right out the window.
Disgusting.
UPDATE: THe state has said it will not object in the highcourt if the girl wishes to travel for an abortion. There will be a full hearing on the case on Thursday.
In almost all cases anencephalic infants are not aggressively resuscitated since there is no chance of the infant ever achieving a conscious existence. Instead, the usual clinical practice is to offer hydration, nutrition and comfort measures and to "let nature take its course". Artificial ventilation, surgery (to fix any co-existing congenital defects), and drug therapy (such as antibiotics) are usually regarded as being pointless. Some clinicians see no point in even providing nutrition and hydration, arguing that euthanasia is morally and clinically appropriate in such cases."
Remember this will you? It's important.
Oh the HSE aren't available on the weekend to care for a man and perhaps prevent him murdering his family and then killing himself, no sir, but for a girl trying to end a pregnancy which carries no hope for her unborn child and they're right on the ball. Ready to do battle at all cost.
Observe, from today's Irish Independent.
"A 17-year-old teenager whose baby will not survive after birth has gone to court to stop the HSE preventing her travelling to the UK for an abortion.
In a landmark case, the teenager, who is currently in care, is seeking to challenge directions by the HSE stopping her from travelling outside the State for an abortion.
Pregnant minors, in the care of the state, are currently only allowed to travel abroad to have an abortion if the mother's life is at risk, including the threat of suicide.
But this case could result in making the grounds for having a termination widened to include foetal abnormality.
This issue has never been tested in the Irish courts and legal experts fear it could have the potential to precipitate a fresh constitutional crisis.
The case looks set to reopen the divisive debate over abortion, just three weeks before the general election. And the Government parties fear the hearing - which has been dubbed the 'D-case' - could potentially provoke another backlash from voters.
The coalition only narrowly survived the political fallout which followed its disastrous handling of the A-Case when the Supreme Court struck down our statuatory rape laws.
In the wake of the X ruling by the Supreme Court in 1992, a number of cases were brought of behalf of minors seeking to travel to the UK to terminate their pregnancies.
After the C-Case, the High Court ruled that a child in care could only travel for an abortion if her life was at risk.
Yesterday the 17-year-old girl, who is four months pregnant and from the Leinster region, was supported by her boyfriend in the High Court.
Mr Justice Liam McKechnie ordered the media not to identify her.
She is to be known only as Miss D.
The court heard claims that the HSE had notified gardai and asked them to ensure she did not try and leave the country.
She has discovered that the foetus she is carrying suffers from the condition anencephaly where a major part of its brain is missing.
Infants with such a condition are born without a forebrain and the thinking part of the brain and are usually blind, deaf, unconscious and unable to feel pain.
Miss D's lawyer told the High Court the prognosis and life expectancy for a baby with such a condition after birth is a maximum of three days.
Gerard Hogan SC said that up until the "unfortunate news" last week, there was no question of a termination and this has only arisen in the last few days.
Mr Justice Liam McKechnie was told the girl is in care as a result of an order made by the District Court under the Chid Care Act 1991 at the start of April.
She has claimed she has been advised by the HSE that the gardai have been notified that she is not permitted to leave the State and the care order makes it unlawful for her to leave the State without HSE permission.
The care order had been put in place as a result of the conduct of the girl's mother.
Her father has been absent from her life.
The proceedings in which the girl is seeking leave to bring a High Court legal challenge to the directions of the HSE have been brought by the girl's boyfriend on behalf of the 17-year old.
The girl is seeking leave to seek an order from the High Court quashing the care order made by a District Justice to the extent that it restricts her from travelling from the State.
She is also seeking an order quashing the decision of the HSE to contact the gardai to request that she not be permitted to leave the State.
In the judicial review proceedings against the District Justice, the HSE and Ireland and the Attorney General, the girl is also seeking an order quashing the decision of the HSE refusing to permit her to travel to procure the termination of her pregnancy unless she presented as a suicide risk.
In the proceedings, the girl is also seeking a court order directing the HSE to advise the gardai that they consent to her travelling to the UK. She is also seeking a declaration that there is no lawful basis for interference with her right to terminate her pregnancy.
She claims the HSE decision to prevent her leaving the State to procure a termination of her pregnancy constitutes an unlawful interference with her constitutional rights to personal autonomy, bodily integrity, private life and to travel."
It is bad enough in this country that we export out problems rather than dal with them, but to stop a young woman from ending a pregnancy that WILL result in a deformed baby that WILL die strikes me as barbaric.
Cui Bono here? The mother who must carry this pregnancy for another 24 weeks? Who must go through the agony of birth knowing the result? The unborn fetus? Who will know nothing and die within hours of being delivered? Who is this ruling supposed to benefit?
Despite what some people think there is a grey area to abortion. It is not a black and white issue. Yes, abortion is too common (in my view) and yes I have my questions about it.
But in this case I have none.
There is no happy outcome to this case, there will be no Hallmark moments. Just another long drawn out legal quagmire where the rights of women and logic and compassion are thrown right out the window.
Disgusting.
UPDATE: THe state has said it will not object in the highcourt if the girl wishes to travel for an abortion. There will be a full hearing on the case on Thursday.
Labels: suffering.
posted by fatmammycat at 8:17 a.m.
41 Comments:
I wasn't aware of that story. That poor girl. All she can hope for is a swift resolution by the courts.
I guess somebody needs to go through the court hoops to get these laws clarified, but I can't see why anybody would want to become a cause celebré with all the attendant publicity. On a personal basis why didn't she just get on a boat to the UK and have her abortion. There are no id checks on the way out. Also, under these circumstances, there must be a few local gynos who would be prepared to do the job, no questions asked.
I imagine cost was a factor, this girl is a ward of the state and as such is probably not in a postition to travel.
And there are definitely not a few gynos willing to do the job, if that got out their license would be yanked and they would be out of a job. Shebah, there are some doctors over here who will still not give you relevant information on reproductive rights because they object from a moral standpoint.
I need perspective sometimes to snap me out of my bad moods. That is a very grim tale FMC. If it was from 1970's Ireland I wouldn't have been surprised, but it 2007 ffs!
This one beggars belief alright...it's just going to cause unnecessary suffering while postponing the inevitable - pointless cruelty as far as I can see...
Thank you for this! It's important to spell out the very real medical scenario here for the fetus and for Miss D. The ruling is cruel and unusual punishment.
I know, I've been listening to folk on the radio all morning going on about 'miracles' and 'what ifs' This kind of head in the sand attitude annoys the shit out of me. There are no what ifs with this particular development and no other outcome only the death of the full term infant and no woman should be FORCED to bring a non viable fetus to full term if she does not wish too.
totally agree with everything you're saying. Poor kid.
It's just appalling, in this day & age. It's also interesting that the pro-choice people can use reasoned arguments to debate this issue, while the pro-lifers tend to fall back on simple black & white, religious arguments. When religion walks in the door, reason flies right out the window.
I think that it is very unfair and shortsighted to say things like, "when religion walks in the door, reason flies right out the window".
There are plenty of religious people out there that would agree entirely that this girl should go abroad to get the abortion she wants and possibly needs, after all I can't imagine that being forced to deliver this child will do her mental health any good.
But, again, religion becomes a whipping boy for those that claim to know it all and insist on imposing it on everyone else. What about the case that can be made, that legalising abortion in this country could lead to what could be termed 'casual'terminations? After all the state of sexual education in this country is appaling and there are already enough teenage parents to prove it. The option of an abortion would , in my view, only be seen as a get out of jail free card for many. However, nobody ever wants to suggest that because it doesn't fit with their arguement that it's simply "religion" holding us all back.
I also think it highly improbable that religion has been a factor, on the HSE's part, in allowing this girl to travel abroad for an abortion. If they were an organisation run by religious people I don't think the health system would allow people to wait in agony on hospital trollys,or for months before getting operations that bring relief.
What we need, in this country, is to stop pretending abortion doesn't effect Irish women. Thousands of women travel to the UK every year to avail of the abortion service and we shrug our shoulders and say, 'oh yes, people should have an abortion if they want-just not here.'
So we export the problem and hope we 're not faced with any sicky issues-such as a pregnant minor with a deformed baby growing inside her or a 14 year old pregnant through rape.
I have said it before, I am not comfortable with a casual abortion on demand attitude and I deplore the attitude dispalyed in some people who seem to equate abortion (almost) with having a tooth pulled, but by the same token I cannot stand that there is no service in this country where women who might desperately need an abortion cannot safely gain one.
I would respectfully submit that the reason abortion is not legal in Ireland is, at its very core, because of the prevailing religion of the country. If I'm wrong, I'll take my hits now. And I doubt sincerely that most women who find themselves in the position to have to make that choice would do it so casually as having a tooth pulled. It must be an agonizing thing to go through - I can't even imagine it. But it's another person's moral decision, so I can't make it for them - and I don't believe anyone but the woman involved has the right to make that decision. Even here in the states we're in danger of losing our own reproductive rights - as our republican appointed supreme court seems to have taken the attitude of "don't worry your pretty little head about it, we'll make this decision for you." And I'm very, very frightened.
If the Supreme Court has its way here in the US, we're going to have similar situations.
That's horrible. The poor girl.
Ireland is still a catholic country Andraste so I don't think you're wrong there.
With regards to the tooth thing I'm being a little overly glib, but I'm really thinking about the UK and something I read recently about the sheer volume of abortions that take place there every year and some of the attitudes to it. I think abortions should be a safe, legal and rare, but it would appear it is not.
Rusticissimus I think the anti-choice people who look at a pregnancy as going to jail take a dim view of parenthood. Being pregnant or having a child shouldn't be a punishment. It should be a choice. When there is no choice and pregnancy is compulsory so will have miserable families and situations far worse than abortion such as infanticide. Do I need to point to the horrific cases from 1984? There is no such thing as a casual abortion. In saying so, you argue that women don't agonize over the decision. Yes, because having an abortion is as easy as getting your teeth cleaned.
It's reductive and small minded view of women.
Make contraception/education free and accessible and you reduce the need for abortion.
There are NO doctors in Ireland who will perform abortions, even in cases of threat to life of the mother, because they can't. Irish trained doctors are not taught how to perform them. The Irish Medical Association considers performing one, under any circumstances, malpractice. Fucked up much?
As far as 'casual abortions' go, do you mean like the one Caitlin Moran wrote about in the Times a couple of weeks ago. She got a ton of shit about it, not so much because she had one, but because it HADN'T upset her, and it had been a really easy decision. She's married with two kids already, and certainly not on the breadline. Do you think she was wrong to make the decision she did. I think her desire not to be a mother again is a good enough reason. But she'd probably fall under your 'teeth pulling' category. What do you think?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article1645946.ece
I'm not thinking of her at all. I've already said the expression I used was a big glib. But I do think abortion for some women is not a big deal where as it is a bigger deal for others. That is my opinion and mine alone.
Either way, I would refuse no woman the right to self determine over her own body and specifically in this case where there is no viable pregnancy at all I think the girl inquestion, Miss D, should not have to go through any of this nonsense.
I realize that abortion is illegal in Ireland.
But it should be.
That can't be a revolutionary statement nowadays.
When most abortions in the U.S. are performed in the first trimester you don't have a viable fetus.
You have only a potential life.
Motherhood should not be a punishment inflicted upon women. It should be a choice.
Even when women choose to have an abortion it's never like cleaning your teeth (I was assuming a sarcastic tone of the anti-choice crowd).
Sometimes it just the best choice that could save a woman's life. Keep her in school to get an education and keep her out of poverty.
It's a medical procedure that some women are always going to need. Trust women with the ability to make their own medical decisions.
Caitlin Moran, by the way, made the right decision for herself and her well being and no one should judge her for that. It's no one else's business.
Medbh, I believe I said, 'I think abortions should be a safe, legal and rare, but it would appear it is not.' earlier.
I know nothing about Caitlin Murphy and her choices. And once again I would say women should have the right to self determine their own bodies, does that mean I am comfortable with EVERY abortion, no I am not, does that mean I am anti-choice, no ma'am.
Excellent post... the only thing that scares me personally is that a firend of mine's baby was diagnosed with the same condition in utero. She decided to go ahead with the pregancy and thank God she did as the baby was completely normal and is now a perfectly healthy three year old. Thos ultrasounds are not always right... that's the scary thing. Both my children were supposed to be well over ten pounds based on the ultrasounds... tried to force me into sections. Both were a healthy eight pounds delivered naturally and drug free.
I would just hope the doctors are 100% sure for baby and mothers sake, and if so, then absolutely, she should be allowed make the decision she feels is right.
It makes you wonder too about the proactivity of the HSE. If she was in their care surely she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place? Shouldn't they be promoting safe sex and at least supply birth control to minors in their care? It's a disgrace!
FMC- I also agree with the fact that abortion might be overused if legal. Yes, most mature women agonize over the decision, but a teenager may not have the maturity yet to realise how it will effect her in the future... just a thought! Excellent post.
It's an emotive issue Humble Housewife, for everyone. Welcome aboard.
Right-ho, Off to finish some work.
Oops eek, Humble Housewife I'm tired and didn't read what you said closely enough. I DO believe abortion should be legal. I hate that we export it, but I also would like to see a decrease in the number of abortions per year, through better contraception and greater care been taken by the sexually active, male and female alike. The less women that have to go through an abortion the better in my book.
Right, work.
Shit, I have to be sure to edit my comments before I hit publish.
I MEANT THAT ABORTION SHOULD BE SAFE AND LEGAL IN IRELAND.
Because until it is, motherhood will be compulsory to sexually active hetero women.
A potential life should not usurp the rights and future of the living conscious woman.
So sorry for my careless earlier post!
I'm just glad Miss D has a decent-sounding boyfriend to speak for her while she's no doubt vomitting and distressed and grieving at this doomed pregnancy. There doesn't seem to be anyone else in her life on her side, especially not her guardian's the state.
Oh, and cheers, Fat Mammy Cat, I was just stating my general view and not implying that you were advancing an anti-choice position. You're right that Ireland needs to face the fact that Irish women are already having abortions and it is a national issue.
guardians, I mean.
Abortion is a thorny issue but this case doesn't seem to present the normal ethical issues that women have to deal with. Surely the ethical thing to do in this particular case is to end this pregnancy now to minimize the pain and suffering of all concerned, including the baby.
My friend recently had twins. One had died in utero at 24 weeks and she had to carry the dead baby 'til term. She shopped in the same week for a crib and a coffin. She is brave as a lion, strong as an ox but this pregnancy really took an emotional toll on her. She was in mourning but also growing a new life. It was an awful lot of major emotion to handle simultaneously. Fortunately she has a close, brilliant family who helped her enormously, letting her know she was not alone. Miss D clearly does not.
If my friend had not the other baby to carry - now a beautiful baby girl - then she would have had the abortion at 20 weeks when it was clear the baby could not possibly survive - the heart defects were so massive. To have expected her to do anything differently would have been horrifically cruel, in my opinion. I saw how she suffered with the loss of her wee boy, at the same time she was rejoicing at her wee girl Roise, and that was heart-wrenching enough for all who love her. Miss D has no other baby to comfort her. I can't imagine what the psychic assault on a 17 year old child's brain from carrying, developing and delivering a baby just for it to die in her arms.
Where is the common-sense and common humanity here? If it's a religious argument that right is right and wrong is wrong, then I'm sorry, but the powers that be who are standing by that have their heads up their own arses so far they could examine their bridge-work. God might have given us a book of laws or not, and those laws may be spurious or not - that is debatable and good people can disagree over it. But God also gave us reason and compassion and to ignore these twin imperatives, in this case, in favour of a very vague (self-) righteousness is misguided and myopic to the point of being wicked. But I guess bureaucracy is known for it's evils by tiny, discrete degrees; accumulative individual evils adding up to a greater societal sickness. I guess I mean something along the lines of that book you were reading, fmc, The Lucifer Effect.
Rivetting post FMC, and the comments too.
Me? I'll judge nobody. I'm not in their shoes, they're not in mine. Bottom line is that no woman should become a mother unless she wants to be a mother. Certainly, no child should have to become a mother.
Evening ladies, Sam, I hope you're feeling better darling. I'm sorry to hear for your poor friend, it must have been terrible for her.
With regards to the case, it's an irish solution to a very irish problem, export the problem and the problem does not exist. Oh and there is a General Election this month too so no politician wants to touch this case with a ten foot barge pool, vote loser you see. Never mind about the girl or her suffering, it's the votes that count.
Medbh, gotcha fine, glad to have you here.
Mairéad, good evening hun, how do we feel B-B-B-ertie might handle this one?
this is a hugely difficult topic which the media consistently try to trivialise and politicise. We end up giving equal weighting to our recriminations over abortion and the mock=horror over antics at Wesley on a friday night. Our society is changing. the right to choice and the humanitarian aspect of what is inherently "right" is now to be decided upon. We need to vote with our feet. We don't need the support or nod of the powers yhat be. Use the inadequacies of the unfortunate pollsters calling to your door over the next month to push the ideal of a modern Ireland where the workhouse mentality of the 50's as shown by the HSE is brought forward (albeit under duress) into the 21st century. We owe it to each other... it could be your sister/daughter next...
It's just so sad that the health and wellbeing of this poor 17-year-old girl is being compromised like this.
It doesn't matter if it's political, religious, personal or whatever reasons that they're putting her through this - the outcome is inhumane that she has to have her grief so publicly and ABSTRACTLY debated and twisted and discussed.
So I'm glad that you put the human aspect into it, and I hope that this example in the courts changes those laws to protect the rights of women.
This case is truly a sad one. at the end of the day, abortion is a personal decision and not something that should be dragged through the court system. This country needs to make abortion legal. it isnt something everyone will rush out and do once it is legal. if a person wants to have an abortion , she will find a way of travelling to the UK and having it. Making abortion legal doesnt make it more appealing but it does treat Irish women with the dignity and respect they deserve.
Why should a girl at 17 deliever a baby which will die within 3 days, a baby which will never hear or see, feel pain or think?i mean giving birth is tramatic enough, giving birth and knowing that that baby will die would be pure torture. It would be similar to personal torture and would probably affect that girl for the rest of her lie.what right do the HSE or the courts have to decide her fate. her own mother has consented to the abortion as has the babys father.
Abortion is something people need to think through carefully. i have one friend who kept her child, hes 3 now and beautiful and shes never been happier and i have another friend who aborted a child. she would have had to leave her guarda apprenticeship and after she aborted the child she discovered her boyfriend was cheating on her. she made a right decision for her.
in my own terms, im 22 and have been in a serious relationship for 5 years, i plan to marry this man. Im in college for the 2nd time round and have a brillant family but if in the morning i fell pregnant, i would travel to the UK because the time isnt right for me and him and i would be a better, more mature and stable mother in 1o years. its a private choice and i only hope that Ms. D gets to make that choice.
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