Wednesday, January 30, 2008

A question of infidelity.

While perusing the cess pool that is the Daily Mail ( I"m sorry, I have a problem) I cast a bleary over this
Now far be it for me to pretend to know the inner workings of their marriage, but it strikes me as utter folly to consider having children with a man who has just cheated on you, possibly more than once.
But to my question. What's the deal breaker with you when it comes to relationships?
I have always maintained that I would drown the paramour if I discovered he was cheating on me with another woman. I don't think I would be able to pick up the pieces of my shattered heart. I don't think I'd be able to forgive and forget. I don't think I'd get over it. You can't just switch love off and of course people make mistakes, we are human after all. But for me, the idea of my paramour kissing another woman or smiling at her or holding her hand, brushing a lock of her hair back from her face. Yeah, it makes me reach for my mental machete.
Of course relationships survive affairs, marriages live through all sorts of ups and downs, some even emerge stronger than before. But that one for me would be it, the deal breaker. I know me, I wouldn't be able to look at him the same way. Maybe on a superficial level I'd forgive, but deep down I wouldn't. It would burn through me.
I trust him you see. I've had to step outside of myself and open up. To allow someone else to have sway over my well being. I've laid it bare with him. No bullshit, no gloss, this is me, warts and all, foibles and flaws, the good the bad and the down right ugly. He's taken it all on board, he didn't flinch or run away screaming-even after he met my mother.
He's really a good man.

So I asked him earlier. 'What would be your deal breaker?'
'Probably being asked what would be my deal breaker before I've even finished my coffee in the morning' said he before fleeing for the shower.
'Mine might also be people who leave the toilet seat up!" I yelled after his departing figure.
So, would you forgive, or would you be found buying rolls of chicken wire and cement blocks at Woodies DIY?



Blogger Caro said...

I wouldn't be able to forgive, I just don't have it in me. And I certainly wouldn't be able to forget. I'd want revenge, bloody, painful, calculated and served cold.

The fact is, if someone cheats on you once, the likelihood that they'll cheat on you again is extremely high, even if they feel remorse now. Next time you hit a rough patch they'll be off.

10:12 a.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

I used to think that way - that once the trust was broken there was no way I could forgive them, but if it happens (after the initial flurry of blame and heartache), it can be difficult to just abandon a relationship so easily.

Trust can be rebuilt and hearts can be mended - I'm not suggesting that it could be ever forgotten, but if the determination is there it could be possible to work through it.

Jesus, I sound like such a sap!

10:35 a.m.  
Blogger Lou said...

I couldn't, I'm not a forgiving person.

And on that story, that hairdresser, she must have some major issues. She goes home with Ashley Cole, he's so drunk he throws up all over himself in the car, when they get to the flat SHE has to wipe vomit off his arm, then she still decides to have (unprotected) sex with him and in the middle of having sex with him he stops to be sick again. And then they continue.

FFS. WHAT is wrong with that girl.

10:42 a.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

Also - "According to The Sun, filming was halted at one stage as the Newcastle-born singer struggled to contain her emotions" - bit of the blind leading the blind when The Mail quotes from The Sun!

10:46 a.m.  
Blogger Conan Drumm said...

Hmm, and double-hmm.

Been there, on the receiving end, and it aint one bit theoretical or hypothetical, especially when there's juniors involved and mother has to suddenly leave to visit an ill friend at 8.30pm and doesn't return until 2 or 3 in the morning. Then there's the umbilical mobile phone that brings the third person in the room.

No Missus, it's not one bit pretty. And it takes a very long time to get over, inside, and you do not forgive, ever. And when you do allow the head over the parapet again the hurt is all too visible to everyone. And all the time you're putting a brave front on it, for the kids. And then there's the debts you get, when you're left with one income in the household.

Infidelity is all it's cracked up to be. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

10:57 a.m.  
Anonymous nonny said...

No infidelity is the worst. I was with a dude, John almost 7 years, we lived together, had the house, the nice cars, the cat, the dog, the mowing the lawn on Sunday and one Saturday some randomer phoned me, it was all, “who is this?”, “no, who is this?” anyway it turned out John left his phone in his mates house, the mate who had been away for two weeks, the mate who’s girlfriend John went home and shagged after meeting her at a party the night before. Such a fucking cliché. Dave kicked the shit out of his girlfriend, ring an ambulance kind of beating. I cleaned the windows and continued to do so after John came in crying and apologies, no amount of apologising, no amount of crying, no new car, no marriage proposal, nothing would make me forgive him. He moved out before I had finished cleaning the windows. I used to be a nice person before that heh.

11:17 a.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

Not a chance would I be able to forgive. I have before and it was a big mistake, as I ended up worse off than before. Even now, 3 years down the line I have severe trust issues because of it and still get upset over it, but it was something that I had to go through I guess. Now my motto is you don't get a second chance with Babs, it has to be that way for me.
I would never judge anyone for forgiving though, it's a personal decision, I was betrayed in an awful way which is why I am so careful about letting people in now.

11:21 a.m.  
Blogger The Bad Ambassador said...

Lou, I'm sure it had nothing to do with thoughts of selling her "sordid" tale to some red top rag. If the money wasn't sufficient I'm sure the prospect of being described as a "blonde stunnah" provided added incentive.

"Blonde Stunnah: I cleaned Ashley's vomit" probably wouldn't command such a high fee.

11:26 a.m.  
Blogger Lou said...

Yeah but I don't think I could sleep with someone who was a) covered in vomit, and b) still vomiting. Not for all the money/chocolate/cheese/shoes in the universe. Gagorama....

11:34 a.m.  
Anonymous Pinkie said...

Hmmm -- that's a good 'un. I am in a long distance relationship with a member of the armed forces which, on the outside, has all the trappings of a potential infidelious (new word?) disaster. But the relationship has been going on for 7 years now and I have never been disloyal to him and he has never been disloyal to me.

Ah, but how do you know, I hear you rumble!

I just do.
I trust that The Brain has no other love than me. It helps that he is not much of a people person and tends to find the company of women, particularly gooing, pretty women vying for his attention, to be boring and tedious. He also thinks they are only interested in him for the uniform - woo!

Now, whether or not I could forgive and forget in the case of an affair, whether it wuold be a deal breaker... I think, eventually, it would be. I would try to forgive adn forget initially but in the end I dont think I could put something like that aside. Once the trust is broken then it is broken. It might be mended but there will always be that weakness.

Another deal breaker for me would be if The Brain started to drink heavily. I don't mind a pint or two or three now and then, and I dont mind it if he gets drunk once or twice but if it became habit it would be off too. I've had enough of drunks in my life.

11:35 a.m.  
Blogger The Bad Ambassador said...

Would you do it for cheese shoes?

11:36 a.m.  
Blogger Lou said...

Cheese shoes. Nope. Diamond shoes and we may be talking...

I think infidelity is the only dealbreaker for me. Other than the usual alcoholism/violence/aggression... But I've been lucky enough never to encounter any of those things either...

11:40 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

You don't sound like a sap Sheepie, everyone is different and you're right, it would be very difficult to walk away from a relationship, especially one that was good in many respects. And as Conan said when there are children involved it becomes not just about you and your hurt, but minimizing theirs.
It's easy to be analytical on a bright Wednesday morning, but who knows what any of us would do when push came to shove?
When my first serious boyfriend cheated on me -with a so called friend no less- I thought I was going to die. Honestly, I really did.
Even the thought of them together made me feel physically sick. And it wasn't even about sex, oh no, it was about the intimacy, the shared jokes, she had knowledge of him she had no right knowing. And that near killed me.
She sidled up to me in the canteen in college one day about a fortnight after I found out about them, plonked her big arse down beside me and actually said 'look, I think we should talk, you know, nobody meant to hurt you.' Like I was being a damp squib for not smiling through my agony. I'd been with that plonker for four years and she's looking to smooth over my edges with a girlie chat?
How I didn't clatter her I'll never know.
Plus I was a bigger sap, I did take idiot back, but I was young and foolish and alone in the city.
A year later I looked at him one morning and thought, 'You know, I don't like you.' And that was that. Out the door I went, and then HE accused me of seeing someone else ( because what other reason could I possibly have for leaving such a fine man?).

11:50 a.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

I had a mate who was regularly beaten by his girlfriend. Im talking black eyes, cuts - noticeable things. She was actually quite a petite girl too, she just emotionally dominated him which lead to physical domination.
Very strange thing to comprehend...

Anyway, my new motto is never say never - you really don't know how you'll deal with anything until you're confronted by it, including infidelity.

11:50 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Physical abuse is a deal breaker for me too. If a man struck me that would be it.

11:52 a.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

When I found out about my ex's infidelity I ran out into the street in my bare feet and vomitted, And it was the same thing as you FMC, it wasn't that I knew he had been with someone else, it was the things that we shared together that I thought only I knew, she knew too, like the way he made snuffly noises when he slept, and that he brushed his teeth in the shower to save time, and that he never smelled of any product, just eternal cleanliness.

When I called around to collect my things a week later (we lived together)the other woman answered the door, to MY old apartment. That killed. I am glad that my Dad has waited in the car as I am sure he would have killed the guy.

We made our peace last year. I hadn't spoken to him in two years, my phone rang, it was him, I felt nauseous, I answered, we went for a drink. I acted like the ice queen. We drank more.

We ended up sitting on the Canal at Portobello drinking Tiger Beer out of brown paper bags smoking joints. He told me that he was sorry. He told me that if he had to choose one person that he had to be with forever it would be me. He told me everything that I had ever needed to hear him say. We are friends now.

But I still hate him for what he did to me. The pain goes away, but the scars are always there.

My new boy said to me "you have a look in your eyes that says - 'I have been broken' - I don't know if that's a good thing or not though!)

12:09 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Not nice, it's never nice. And as Conan also rightly said, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. (Count yourself lucky, you know who you are)

12:13 p.m.  
Anonymous Sam, Problemchildbride said...

I think that it would depend on the degree of infidelity (an extended affair shows far more deceit and latent contempt than one drunken affair), the type of relationship, and what else was going on.

I honestly don't know if it would be a deal-breaker for me. Conan's right about kids complicating things.

I will say, however, that the most acrimonious divorces I've seen amongst friends and acquaintance have not been about infidelity, so I can't even say that infidelity is the most harmful thing that can happen in a relationship. Long term abuse - physical or emotional - can cause more damage sometimes, I reckon. I've also seen at least one case where infidelity provided the means by which a truly toxic relationship could end in the cleanest possible way, for them anyway.

I've also known two relationships, one a long term homosexual relationship and one a marriage with kids, mortgage, dogs, the whole shebang where for different reasons one partner couldn't or wouldn't sleep with their long term partner. There was no question about love - the love was there and real and, of course, what made things more difficult. It wasn't easy for either couple and the people involved couldn't have been more different but what both had in common was a hard-won honesty about their circumstances, difficult to arrive at in both cases, but also sufficient to help them come to some (creative) solutions.

The married couple examined what they had, saw that it was good, saw what resentment was doing to their relationship and agreed on a sort of discreet, semi-open relationship with very clear rules for both partners. They're still together and as far as I know are still making it work (they're British so I don't see them often enough to know if it is really working but individually they both seem happy and content with life.

The gay couple split up for a while but neither was happy til they were together again. At that point one of them had been having regular sex with someone else (I have no idea of he had a partner, I never asked adn the information wasn't volunteered, frank as the rest of the revelation was) but there was no relationship desired on either side and so they became "friends with benefits and have been tootling along quite happily like that for years.

People can be quite extraordinary under extraordinary circumstances, is all I'm really saying. So much depends on the people involved and the circumstances that I really find it difficult to out-right condemn what goes on in other people's relationships, however ill it would sit with me.

For me the physical act would matter less than the other "shared intimacies" like you said fmc. There's no doubt I'd find it very hard to deal with but, if I'm honest, I just don't know if it would be a deal-breaker, I genuinely don't know. So much would depend on circumstances, the kids, the timing and whatever other random there was. I love the Prob Hub dearly, and he me, and I would find it enormously difficult to get over a betrayal of trust like that but I guess I don't know myself well enough to know what I'd do - a somewhat tragic admission to still be making at 33 but I truly don't know myself well enough to be able to predict that. I do know that I am a strong person though and at this point there's nothing much really I couldn't take, saving my children dying, so either way, if we split or didn't, I'd endure but only if I could keep my self-respect intact while doing so. People can get through all sorts of things.

1:07 p.m.  
Anonymous nonny said...

An open relationship, ah no, fuck that. Infidelity is unique in comparison to other relationship problems, it is like a disease, people avoid you, if you go to a wedding or family gathering, everybody knows why you are there alone and eventually some old biddy comes up to offer commiserations and say things like, there are plenty more fish in the sea. You mother is convinced it was something YOU did and ultimately you will be left on the shelf. One minute you are planning on having five kids the next you are eating dinner on your own and are inundated with invitations to baby-sit. There is no point in threatening violence or planning revenge it will just make you bitter. Infidelity is the fucking worst thing ever.

1:22 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I"m never really sold on open relationships either, I always feel one person is more 'open' than the other. But like Sam says, who knows what makes everyone tick along. Maybe it works for some people.
I just remembered during lunch, I know a girl who broke up with her boyfriend of two years because he once told her something she was wearing was hideous. Poof, end of relationship. I guess some folks have lower thresholds of tolerance.

1:57 p.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

Jaysus FMC - thats just the definition of high maintenance!

2:35 p.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

I am not one for "open" relationships for the same reason as you FMC. As in, one person is always not "open" and the other thinks its great that they can fuck around but also have someone there if they can't get a shag.

I know a guy who dumped a girl because he found out that she bleached her top lip hair. Anal or what!

2:37 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

It certainly is and she certainly is. Or was, or maybe she still is, we're not exactly pals. She probably still is.

2:39 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

haha Babs, I guess High Maintenance is not a description just for the ladies.

2:40 p.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

Babs: "he found out"!? Was he following her or did he have secret cameras installed?

What a frickin wierdo!

2:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

I can see where Sam is coming from on this one. I like the idea of "friends with benefits"!However, after my first,100% no holds barred, earth shattering first love at 17, I could never give so much of myself again to another person. I think an open relationship, equal partners, only there because you want to be, is the way to go. If a partner is completely free to make their own decisions, my experience is that they are not generally unfaithful. As far as I am concerned, if my partner wants to be with somebody else, he is free to go - and hopefully, we can part amicably without blood on the floor. I don't think giving ultimatums or putting pressure on somebody to be exclusive to you works; being clingy and insecure puts the other person off. I would hate to feel a man is totally dependent on me for his emotional well being. As the poet Kahlil Gibran said about Love "thestrings of the lute stand alone, though they quiver with the same music"
A dealbreaker for me would be any kind of verbal or physical violence.

2:58 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every situation is different but... if I caught my other half cheating, I think my world would cave in. As a couple of other people have said here, it's not necessarily the physical act of betrayal, it's the betrayal of the intimacies that you share, the couple-y things that make you... er... a couple that would seem like the bigger violation to me. That's a difficult thing to fix and I don't think I could forgive it.

Many, many moons ago, I took back a boyfriend after he cheated on me, because I was young and foolish and thought love would conquer all. It was never really the same again, though, and it ended six months later when he cheated again. And then, a couple of weeks after that, he had the nerve to turn up on my doorstep looking for a late night drunken 'booty call'. He got the door slammed in his face that time.

3:56 p.m.  
Blogger Andraste said...

Not sure if a one-time, drunken roll would be a dealbreaker for me, but continued deceit and a real ongoing 'affair' would make me call a lawyer. SPOUSE seems very happy to be off the market though, so I don't think I have to worry about either. But I really can't say one way or the other, you don't know what your reaction would be to something like that unless it actually happens.

The one thing that would be a real 'dealbreaker' for me would be if he suddenly came home and announced he was 'born again' or some stupid crap, and started trying to convince me to do the same, or went all zealous about it, as they do. I couldn't live with someone who was not only so gullible, but preachy or smug about it. Yuck.

Oh, and we'd have to have a serious talk if he EVER wanted to move someplace awful like Florida or Texas or something. I'm sure if I tried to live outside of New England I would wither and DIE.

But, like I said, this is all hypothetical - no way of knowing what I'd feel or do if it actually happened.

4:03 p.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

Sheepie: I think they went on holidays together and she forgot her Jolen or something. It was years ago. He is the most anal person I have ever ever met to the point where it makes me want to kill him. But he is my friend and I have to accept him. I think I may have drunkenly smacked him one when he dropped that shocker on me. I don't think he told the girl the real reason!!
Can you imagine - "honey I'm sorry I don't love you anymore, you bleach your lip hair".

4:05 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Holy Fuck! Andraste! If he came home and suddenly started saying things like 'we should give Reiki a try' or, 'Why not visit a psychic' I"m afraid that right there would be reason enough for a prolonged visit to singledom.
Anonymous with the booty calling lothario, well slammed. The bloomn' cheek of him.

4:09 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

When I was younger I used to say I'd leave Mr. M if he cheated on me and now I know that I wouldn't.
He's so smart that if he did cheat I feel pretty sure that I'd never find out anyway.
I don't think abuse is in the cards, either. I told him my dealbreaker would be him messing with children (he wouldn't) or animals (ditto).

5:59 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Both excellent deal breakers I have to say.

7:33 p.m.  
Anonymous eva said...

Difficult to say what would be a deal breaker, as I'm currently single and have been single for about a hundred years.
However somewhat ironically, it was infidelity that kick-started my "life". I was young, naive, and I had been together for five years with a guy who was a bully, who was jealous, who regularly punched me around, and who always told me I wasn't worth anything, I dressed wrong, I behaved wrong etc. At the time I had dreams about going abroad, about doing this and that, achieving something, and every time I said a word about anything like that, he would go "tut, tut", and shake his head, "Eva, you live in a dream world. That will never happen."
A few years of abuse, and I believed him. I tried breaking up with him a number of times, because I did realise this was wrong, and I wasn't even in love with him, but he would threaten suicide, "I'm going to kill myself now and remember, it was Your fault", before he stormed off.
Then one day I had to listen to him having sex with one of my friends (I was in the next room), and, well, this turned out to be the final humiliation, and the final straw.
He had broken me down in every possible way by then, and I was a wet patch on the floor. Nothing more. But I did leave him, there and then (too long a story to tell, but let me tell you, it was dramatic).
It was the only time in my life that I have not been able to eat. For one month I felt like vomiting whenever I put anything solid in my mouth. So instead I drank like a fish, smoked (and I'm not a smoker, never have been before or after) and made myself two promises: 1) to never let a man treat me like that again, 2) that from then on, MY wishes were going to be priority.
So I eventually peeled myself off the floor, and began living. A few years later of hard work and determination, I had made quite a successful career and quite a "public" one, and I was offered a high profile international job that made the headlines back in my home country.
And I'm not even ashamed to say that one of the first things I thought, was "read that and weep, you f*cker". I don't believe in revenge, but this gave me the satisfaction to know that every newspaper he opened that day, had my name in the headline. He "knew". That I had gone and fulfilled my dreams, and that I had done it without him or anybody else.
Aaanyway, I'm not going to bore you with my blurbs anymore, but this was my "infidelity story". Since then I could tell you about many other relationship disasters, hehe, so I'm not qualified to answer the question about a deal breaker - however I certainly say infidelity would be one of them. Ah, sometimes it's easier just to stay single..!

7:34 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Eva, someone once said the best revenge is to live well. Seems you pulled it off quite nicely. What a twat.

7:40 p.m.  
Anonymous Elizabeth said...

Hey Miss Cat. I've read your blog for a while and today seems a good day to throw in my two cents.
The Potential Hetero Lifemate and I have, what I guess would be called an "open" relationship. When people ask about our status, we tell them we're not dating and we're free to sleep with whomever we want. However, there are very clear rules that we both adhere to. Not just for the sake of our relationship but also for whomever else we may be sleeping with. The most important rule is that there are no "friends with benefits". They are strictly for sex and nothing else. We both feel that intimacy is the most binding feature of a relationship and we go out of our way not to create that with someone else who we are also sleeping with. And when finding someone that we're attracted to in a sexual capacity, before beginning anything, there's always "the conversation" where we talk about it in depth so that everyone involved knows exactly whats going on and no one leaves with expectations of things that just won't happen.
The second most important thing for us is respecting each other. Meaning, neither one of us abandons the other to mess around with another person. He has his "boys night" and I have my "girls night" (it also helps that our closest mutual friends have a similar arrangement).
The key really is complete and open honesty. I know who he's with and he knows who I'm with. And if I start to feel uncomfortable with something, even if it's just in my head, he will end things with the other girl.
It's not something we started out doing, we both have cheated and every time, it was incredibly difficult to work through it. Everybody told us to walk away and in past relationships, when cheating occured, that's what I did. I was always of the mind-set that cheating meant they didn't love me and didn't respect me enough to be honest with me. But I found someone that I love in such a way that I really just can't walk away.
I think everybody has the ability to forgive (and by forgive, I mean to do it truely. You don't throw it in their face when you get mad. You aren't questioning everything they do when they leave the house). It's a very hard thing to do and it takes a huge amount of time and energy to come back from something like that. It's certainly possible but I think what stops a lot of people is that the relationship wasn't worth fighting for.

9:43 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Evening Elizabeth and welcome. If you're happy in your relationship, I'm happy for you. It wouldn't work for me, but then I don't even like sharing books.
Either way, thanks for your comment.

10:05 p.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

No way would I be able to do that open relationship thing. I have an attachement issue. In that if I with someone for even a short time, I get attached. Even now if I see something that reminds me of an ex from YEARS ago I will get a twang of the "what if's". If I knew that my boy was even comtimplating making a move on someone else, I would be a gonner, I would run out of there. There are two people in our relationship, that's all, I have never slept with someone who I didn't have feelings for. I couldn't do it. It would just feel weird to me. I need the intimacy you see. I know a lot of people don't. I just wouldn't feel nice about myself if I was with someone who I didn't at least have some sort of feelings for.
When "The Prick" (my friends nick name for my ex) betrayed me a lot of my friends were saying things like "get yourself out there again, go to the pub, chat someone up, have a ride, that'll make you feel better". The thoughts of doing that made me feel ill, because even though he betrayed me and I wouldn't let him NEAR me in that way again, all I wanted was for him to wake me up out of my horrible dream and make everything better again. So I didn't go to the pub, I didn't chat anyone up, and I didn't have a ride, for 9 months until I met my "rebound" guy. The prick had made me feel that bad about myself I thought that I was somehow inadequate in the sex stakes, in reality he just couldn't keep his mickey in his pants.
The thing I always found really funny about the whole situation was the girl that he betrayed me with was about 8 or 9 inches taller him. How odd is that? That would freak me out big time. 6 foot or taller for me please!

10:17 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Say Babs, how's the non smoking going?

10:20 p.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

It's going great. I am really surprised with myself. And the running is going swimmingly too. I am dead chuffed. My legs hurt sometimes from it but I just lie with them up against the wall for a half an hour and its all good!

10:22 p.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

How is the non-boozing going??

10:24 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Surprisingly well. Apart form Friday evening I really don't feel to put out at all. Right, back to work for another half hour then bed.
Night all.

10:45 p.m.  
Anonymous Sheesh said...

Such an interesting post! I really don't know what my deal-breakers would be - apart from the obvious. But I think I could forgive a drunken roll, as someone - Andraste (I always love your comments!), I think, said - but what I would find incredibly difficult is the shared intimacy stuff. Not even they've-had-a-shag-and-shared-intimacies ... but where "nothing" happens, and yet there is someone with whom there is such emotional intimacy and sharing that it somehow crosses the line. I think that's my deal-breaker: if someone has a friend with whom they share more emotional stuff than me, I would find that so very hard to take.

On the "open" relationship stuff - I know a couple who do this, and my problems with it are (all just based on personal experience): as someone else already mentioned - one party is WAY more "open" than the other. And - despite the rules on "just for sex" - the "open" party has been coming on to me for years.

Although, now that I think of it, finding religion ("born again", officially - or not - acknowledged cults), reiki, reading "The Secret", liking "The Alchemist" or "The Da Vinci Code", visiting fortune-tellers / "psychics" - grounds for immediate dumping! And mother idolry.

12:54 a.m.  
Anonymous Sheesh said...

Mean to say: puts me in mind of Depeche Mode's "It's a Question of Lust"

1:01 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think I could forgive a drunken kiss and maybe a drunken shag.
A full blown affair would be the deal breaker for me.

I can't even comprehend having an open relationship, to me it just goes against all the reasons you enter a relationship with someone in the first place.

2:09 a.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

Oh Lordy! I realise other people mean something different to me by “open relationships” What I meant was that I would never put the love interest through the forty degrees - where he was, who he was with, what he was doing etc. as if he was a child. Some of my friends do just that with their partners. One of our male friends said to me – “you are very good, you ALLOW him to play golf and tennis so often, Jessica (his wife) would not ALLOW me to do that”! We both have lots of separate friends, both male and female (no sex involved!) and mutual respect and honesty. If he wanted to go off and have an intimate relationship with someone else, I would bow out quietly, no screaming or recriminations, as why try to hold on to somebody who doesn’t want to be with you, something must have been missing in the relationship for one or both of you. Nobody should stay in a bad or one sided relationship and let another person damage their self esteem. And drunken shag - would depend - would forgive and forget unless it was with a friend or some drop dead gorgous bint, oh, or somebody as thick as the women who sell their stories to Page 3. That would really make me questions his suitability as a mate!

10:27 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

"One of our male friends said to me – “you are very good, you ALLOW him to play golf and tennis so often, Jessica (his wife) would not ALLOW me to do that”!

Oh I'm so on board with that! I never understand that crap either. Allow? Allow? I don't own him, he doesn't own me. Allow? That gets right up my nose. Since when does a bloody adult need to seek permission to do something like play a game of golf or football or go away running for the weekend. Alllow? Give me a break. If I was that man I'd be asking Jessica if she could hand me my balls back.

10:56 a.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

A friend of mine is in a similar situation - he has to earn 'points' (his words) with his wife if he wants to do something with mates.

One example - he was offered a ticket for Ireland vs Italy, had to phone his wife to ask if he could go, and by the time she made up his mind the ticket was gone. Pfftt!

11:09 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

That's outrageous!

11:35 a.m.  
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