How Fat is too Fat? How Thin is too Thin?
Apropos a conversation with Etheline this very morning I have a few questions.
At 5 '10 according to most experts and BMI charts ( I know, they're only an estimation) I can carry anything between 140 pounds to a 180 pounds without being considered particularly fat, and that's not taking muscle into account.
I weigh, as of ten minutes ago, ( I had to check) 150 pounds. Personally at 180 I would be extremely unhappy and uncomfortable, I would carry most of that weight on my face and my stomach. I would definitely be, in my head, overweight. No, I would consider myself fat.
At 5' 9' Etheline weighs 135 pounds, I consider her too thin ( slightly), she says she is not, that for her frame she is exactly right. I think she could stand to put on 10 pounds and she would look better. But then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe for what we 'do' we're bang on. Etheline is a yoga buff and plays tennis a great deal. I run, kickbox and do weights, I'm also broader and taller than Etheline.
Anyway, the reason I'm asking is because according to Etheline, at least 80% of the women in her office are what she would consider overweight. And by overweight she means carrying anything over 20 pounds for their frame. Because I'm feeling pretty mellow I suggested that we are not autobots and that everyone's body shape is different. Etheline countered with fat is fat, bones and natural shape not withstanding. I said some people can carry off a bit more weight better than others, she said 'bollocks'.
I asked her what the fuck was eating her this morning and it turns out that she overheard one of her colleagues describing her- Etheline- as 'scrawny' and this was what sparked her ire. I said 'oh.'
(I know for a fact she is not 'scrawny' but then read what I said earlier about the extra 10 pounds.)
I think with age you've got to allow a little leeway, everyone 'solidifies' slightly as they get older, I think ten pound over or ten pounds under is not the end of the world. But 10 pounds over or under what? That perplexed me slightly.
So I'll ask it, what you you consider too fat? And on the flip side, too thin?
posted by fatmammycat at 10:24 a.m.
90 Comments:
You're too fat when you have to go out and buy new clothes.
When you're out of breath having reached the top of the stairs.
When you have "man boobs" or "bingo wings"
When you have six chins.
When you feel tired all the time.
When you snore so badly that next morning it's like a hangover.
Depends if you're talking about medical or aesthetic grounds for 'too fat', FMC.
A friend of mine is a tri-athlete and general fitness freak, but cant shift his spare tyre. Medically he's fitter than a fella 1/2 his age, but aesthetically he could be considered 'pudgy'.
Ohh that is a tuffy, I suppose it is whatever you are comfortable with. I mean once your weight isn’t effecting your health not being perfectly toned or having a potbelly is nobody else’s business. Wearing clothes that fit helps mind. My mam is about a size 16, much taller than I am but I wouldn’t call her fat. Everything she eats goes on her hips. I don’t look real thin but I am 5.3 and usually between 7.3-8 stone and it is a battle for me not to loose weight, I have gotten lots of tests done and a speedy metabolise is all they can think of. As Lori is my witness the amount of food I eat is quite sickening. So I guess you don’t know how hard it is for some people to maintain a healthy weight or if they are happy with their weight so we can’t really pass judgement.
Nonny
Aye sheepie, there's pelenty of folk I know that are it as fiddles and carrying a bit more weight than the supposed norm.
Nonny, you're still pretty young, your metabolism does slow a bit as you get older, so enjoy it now.
I think being able to see every bone and sinew on a person is too thin, say, I think Madonna is too thin, by far. By at least 20 pounds.
I think the first comment from anon covers the fat side really.
Too skinny if you look skeletal and only eat celery.
You could say madonna is too skinny, but she's probably furiously battling old age so she's probably thinking to get a headstart and get superfit. I mean she is 70 or something ;)
I think so as well Miss Cat, I’d say their bones are sore, we’ll see a generation of hunched over 40 year old soon. I am terrified of getting osteoporosis and drink about 2ltr of milk a day, I don’t care if I get fat. I don’t want to crippled with some bone disease. People are obsessed with skinniness. My friend start taking diet tablets one week after having her second baby and just before Christmas I lost a bit of weight, I went to a wedding and everybody kept telling me how well I looked. Four days later I ended up in hospital with pneumonia. I mean how fucking mad are people? I think they are all smoking crack. Get outside, do plenty of exercise eat lots of fruit and vegitables and all will be well in your life.
Nonny
Kiera Knightley
The Olsen Twins
Madonna
Victoria Beckham
Nicole Kidman
Eva Herzigovana
Sarah Jessica Parker (just unattractive full stop)
These people are unfeasonably skinny and to my mind are unnattractive.
Gemma Atkinson
Mylene Klass
Danielle Llyod
Roxanne Pallet
Anna Kourakova
Roxanne McKee
These "celebrity" ladies are "voluptuous" all in great shape but not skin and bone, "curvy" if you like.
She's tremendously fit I have not doubt, but in her latest picture I think she really looks dreadful and underweight.
Good list. I'd put Catherine Zeta Jones on that list as well. I think she look amazing.
OH and Jessica Beal, I covet her cuerpo.
Sorry FMC I don't keep up to date with the celebrity photos ;)
Get outside, do plenty of exercise eat lots of fruit and vegitables and all will be well in your life.
Nonny has the right of it methinks.
Sticking to it is the harder part.
I've a wee bit of a beer belly but nothing serious, by the BMC index i think i'm in the overweight category, but I'm fairly broad and reasonably fit so I don't worry about it.
If I could lay off beer and biscuits for a bit I'd be fine.
AH beer, the great leveler. I've had to knock it on the head apart from Smurfs on a Friday evening, and that's usually after kickboxing so I don't worry about it so much. It's a fattening delicious drink.
I agree that there's a difference between aesthetic/medical grounds. But knowing the trouble I've had keeping myself from ballooning up and being at constant war with my body (bitch wants to be fat) to stay in shape, I can't judge anyone - everyone's got a different metabolism and whatnot.
It's a question of what you do to obtain and maintain...i.e., I think people who starve themselves in dangerous ways to achieve Madonna-like thinness are out of their minds, and anyone who can't put the damn donuts down and still bitch about being overweight are just nuts.
I'm jealous, Cat. You're 5'10' and weigh exactly what I weigh, and I'm 5'6"! Dammit, even with all the exercise and eating like a rabbit, i'm still heavier and rounder than I'd like to be. But I AM 'in shape.' Damn these big tits and hips. Useless. The consolation is that I'm living in a place where a good number of people are obese, so everything being relative...
Hah, we crossed Andraste. It's the running that has me at 150, you just use up a lot of energy, and weights burm up a lot too, but like you say it's all relative. And age plays a factor, I found once I went over thirty I had to be more 'aware' of my diet, plus I stopped smoking at 30 and that made my metabolism go hay wire for months. But fuck that, I'd rather be slightly heavier than a smoker.
I think Etheline is slightly obsessed, I think she genuinely can't abide seeing 'fat' under her skin- so to speak. But I blame our mother for that. She has us all terrified we'll explode into lilac couches the moment we're not looking.
Also, last time I checked, tits and hips are all good.
"If I could lay off beer and biscuits for a bit I'd be fine"
Amen to that, especially the biscuits, although I'm blessed with a fast burner metabolism - jaffa cakes spontaneously combust in my gob and never reach the belly.
FMC, on that scale you mentioned in the original post , does that apply for men and women?
Women have lighter frames (generally) so shouldn't they have a lower range?
Anyway, I had to use a converter but I'm about 180 pounds and I'm about 5'10 so on the VHI BMI I get 25.8.
http://www2.vhihealthe.com/Bmi.do
Holy Moley, don't get me started on Jaffa Cakes.
I can easily finish an entire twin pack on my own within about an hour.
But it's all orange isn't it so nothing to worry about ...
The BMI scale if for both I think. I'll have to check. I wouldn't get too bent out of shape ( har) over BMI, it's really only a general guide, it doesn't take muscle into account, just weight. Two people can be exactly the same BMI but one can have very low body fat and plenty of muscle and the other not.
That one was for women Morgor, the chaps on can be found underneath, here.
http://www.caloriecounting.co.uk/resources/charts/ideal.htm
My metabolism suddenly dropped when I hit 25, so I'm alot more conscious about what I eat and keeping off the beer belly. The running was great for staying in shape while it lasted, but haven't been out in about a month and its really starting to show.
Plus there would be body type
endo ecto and meso.
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/body-types-ectomorph-mesomorph-endomorph.html
Don't you miss it Sheepie?
Jesus, according to this yoke I'm a good 2 or 3 stone above my 'ideal weight'. Faaaack.
Yet here's my tuppence worth; at the risk of sounding like Trinny and/or Susannah - once you wear clothes that suit your shape in my case, pencil skirts, fitted, square neck tops, nipped-in waists etc), have a good haircut and wear killer heels, no one really gives a shite about your weight.
Boys...you're on your own.
I could go on nattering forever on this one but I'll confine my response to saying that a simple rule for me is that your belly has to be smaller than your breasts. That's tough for us flat chested women. Sniff.
Haha, Medbh - love your comment.
Apart from that I'm with Nonny on this one, i.e. a good weight is whatever the person feels comfortable with.
I hate statistics, and especially in this case. Why does there have to be statistics for bloody everything!? Can't people make up their own minds without it.
Indeed I do FMC, but I managed to injure myself in some drunken shenannigans, so until I can walk to the shop and back without making old man sounds, I'll have to knock the running on the head.
Eva: 92% of people like statictics.
92% of people are sheep.
Mylene Klass if you're female
David Beckham if you're male- practically perfect in every way! Women are too skinny if ribs show or bony upper chest where those knobbly bones stick out, sticking out veins on arms and those hollow upper inner thighs that look caved in and cadaverish are quease making. Too fat if you have a muffin over your jeans, and can pinch more than an inch on waist, belly or have that fat bit on your back above the bum or bulging above/below bra straps. Double chin = definitely obese, venturing into Dawn French territory. I think worst of all are those tiny child size New York type bodies with that normal size adult lollipop head - they look like some kind of alien. I'm surprised they haven't yet found a plastic surgeon who can make their skull smaller.
Jaysus Medbh, spare a thought for us fellas... we're banjaxed, unless we grow moobs bigger than our bellies!
I have to confess that though I admire the perfect male (Beckham) from afar, I personally prefer a more imperfect "comfortable in his skin" type of chap like Adrian Chiles. Men who spend too much time honing their bodies are usually airheads.
Mylene Klass and David Beckham are both too skinny for my tastes.
I reckon people should be bigger, like Salma Hayek has a nice ratio and Jason Statham is burly enough for me to wish I had the same body.
Salma Hayek is perfect. I'd switch.
Interesting! Beauty is so subjective. I'd switch with Scarlett Johansson or Mylene - but Salma Hayak - definitely not, she looks sorta hairy and masculine to me.
Were you watching Frieda by any chance?
I don't like her face so much to be honest. Her body is divine though.
if i see your bones protruding out at odd angles, or if i'm afraid that the slightest bump will send you into a heap of bones on the ground - chances are you're underweight.
for me it's more about dress (or pant) size than anything... seeing as you can gain weight as fat or muscle.
my metabolism hit rock bottom about 2 years ago, and i went from a size 6 (ideal size for me, according to the physician) to a size 16 (borderline obese based on BMI). but i always wore the same clothes, so no one really noticed all that much. i've finally gotten down to a 12, and while a 6 may be pushing it, i'd settle for an 8.
Attractiveness can play a large part too in deciding what is over/under weight, tho I do tend to avoid ridiculously skinny weemin. I just wanna set them at a table and feed them bacon sarnies.
daisy mae - have you made a typo? You went from a size 6 to a 16 - five sizes bigger, and nobody noticed? And the same clothing? A large cloak, perhaps? :-) I don't really understand US sizing, but I thought size 6 to be a childsize. In the UK, unless you are a very tall girl, or blessed with Pamela Anderson sized boobs, size 16 is big. Please tell me you are jesting! Gwan, gwan.
Morgor - Frieda from the Peanuts cartoon or Frieda Kahlo, she of the large monobrow and the wonderful paintings?
heh, the latter of course ;)
The skinniest people I know are men. My friend Pete is skin and bone and always has been. He looks worryingly thin but he is perfectly healthy and eats what he likes. His wife's a vegetarian and they eat a lot of cheese - and he eats a ton of biscuits - but I've never seen a pick on him. He walks to work every day - about half an hour each way - and plays a lot of football so he's moderately active. His brother and mother are all like this. It's just the way they are.
unfortunately, no typo, but i'll clarify. to put it in perspective, when i first moved to wisconsin i was a size 6, but didn't know anyone... so that could account for some of the not noticing. and i didn't wear the same clothes, but the same style - looser jeans and a baggy sweater or shirt. so as i gained weight i just bought the same style of clothing in bigger sizes. i was particularly fond of layers, too. and granted, this was all during the undergraduate college years, so looking like a slob was more acceptable.
but when i gain weight it all goes to my belly and hips - so it was difficult to tell for many, many people as my arms, legs, and face don't show it like some people. my best refused to believe i was a size 16, and i had to show her the labels on all of my clothes - even then she accused me of tampering with them.
on the brighter side, when i lose weight people notice.... i think it's because my weight gain is so gradual that it just slips under the radar. and i avoid tight-fitting clothes like the plague, so no muffin tops for me!
daisy mae - if I lived in the US, I would be bus sized - it must take willpower of steel not to overeat - what with delicious blueberry pancakes with whipped butter and maple syrup,(half stack or full stack) - for breakfast! Steaks the size of superman's chest, and side orders of onion rings enough to feed the Vietnamese army, and BUCKETS of coke with free refills to wash it down! Oh, and jelly beans on the table in case you feel peckish while waiting! I love America.
In my teens I was accused of being anorexic all the time, to the point where I was really pissed off and defensive about my size. I ate like a horse-beast at every meal and was always a second-helping girl. I played badminton and netball and took long walks but then I'd come home and polish of a packet of Orange Clubs in minutes. I was just skinny and so were most of my family but we were all ruddy and healthy and strong. We're just built this skinny-ass way.
I'm 5'8' and 117ish pounds. According to the chart I'm underweight adn I know some of you will look at these figures and think Jesus, she's too thin. I watch what I eat, it's true, but more in terms of getting lots of fruit and vegetables. I don't count calories and I eat a lot of fat in the form of cheese and olive oil. I slosh that stuff liberally on almost everything I eat.
I'm built tall and skinny - or scrawny or whatever it is I am. My brother is, my uncles are and my grandpa was. And that's all there is to it.
This past year a couple of pounds have crept on, probably making me look better to most people's eyes, but as long as I feel fine I wouldn't sweat gaining 10 more. I eat large breakfasts but depending on what I'm doing I sometimes forget to eat lunch. People have said to me "Well how can you just forget a meal?" I don't know, but from time to time I do and that's all there is to that. The rest of my family are the same. Unless we're sitting down for something proper, sometimes lunch just gets forgotten about. With the kids home for the summer we always sit down adn eat a good big lunch but when they go back to school and are having lunch there I'll probably not be as regular about it for myself.
I get pissed off with people telling me to eat up. What the fuck business is it of their's? It's just rude but apparently it's acceptable to be rude to people you think are underweight. I would never tell somebody else they'd be better off skipping that donut, or Christ, they could do with a fry up. I am not a diet queen by any means, I am healthy, I eat well and that is all there is to that.
I think the BMI charts just don't account for some body types. My daughter is in the minus 5th percentile for her age meaning it is impossible for her to exist but I challenge anyone to find a bouncier, healthier six year old anywhere. She is never at rest and has more energy than her sister who is the same size as the other kids in her class. Her doctor says there is nothing in the world wrong with her, this is just the way she is. She certainly doesn't lack for food, and neither do I, despite the assumptions people might make when they meet me.
Your the same build as CG Sam, he hasn't a pick on him either and regularly forgets to eat lunch. Plus he never actually stops moving. And -as he recently proved by galloping a 10k race with me- he's just peachy.
Salma dancing on a table with a white snake from Dusk to Dawn, hawt.
David Beckham, looks good in adverts, but too skinny for me too. Plus there's the minor problem of his voice...
Gerard Butler in 300, nom nom. God help me, Tom Seleck in Magnum PI- Gamma too, she used to call him a 'fine figure of a man', Alan Rickman in everything, Russell bloody Crowe in Gladiator, but only in that role, or maybe in La Confidential too, maybe.
Kim Bassinger in La Confidential, she was so elegant and utterly beautiful.
Monica Belucci in Brotherhood of the Wolf, Magnetic.
Hmmm I think I can see a pattern, I think I just like beardy masculine men and women who look like women.
Shebah, according to that magnificent paper of knowledge, the Daily Wail, size 16 is now the average in the UK, it could be the same here too.
I ain't sold on american food, very processed I find. American clothes, well now thats different, I buy more clothes there than I do here.
Sam I used to get that a little as well but now that I donning my new pot belly why they don't seem to bother. One of my favorite things to do especially when I was a teenager and had just started college was to say things like "I know I should eat more but I just wanna lose another stone" Oh the look on there face was pricless.
Nonny
SamPCB said "I would never tell somebody else they'd be better off skipping that donut" I'm afraid I would, and do, often and it is for purely selfish reasons! - I have a very dear and very close friend who is severel kilos overweight and I am constantly telling her to step away from that extra whisky - she overdrinks rather than overeats. Her mother died of a heart attack at the age of 54 - she was very overweight and might still be around if she had controlled her eatng. I just can't imagine my life without this friend in it, she enhances every get together and dinner party. So I will continue nagging her in the hope that one day she will pay attention. Presently she laughs at me and reaches for the Jack Daniels! :-)
I think I just like beardy masculine men and women who look like women.
oh yes.
FMC.." Plus there's the minor problem of his voice... "
Talking was not what I had in mind!
and
"the Daily Wail, size 16 is now the average in the UK" - probably is, outside of London, lots of meaty women in the sticks, nothing else to do but eat and watch telly!:-) In Northern England and Scotland, you can get Mars bars deep fried in batter in the chip shops.
Fair enough, Shebah, she's a friend you care about. I was talking more about casual remarks from colleagues or distant cousins at family gatherings or people I don't even know sometimes - waiters ho ho hoing that I look like I need the steak, other women in the bathrooms of bars or in changing rooms. What the fuckety fuck? I want to yell, you're not exactly perfect yourself, you know, you cheeky bloody sods! Scrawny I am and scrawny I'll stay unless one day I decide to eat myself bigger. I might. I might not but either way I sure as hell amn't going to change for anyone but myself.
Scrawny?? I didn't think you looked scrawny Sam Darling, I thought you looked rather fine.
Shebah, the Spaniard once claimed that she believed people got fat from eating 'fish hands' it took many wiggles of fingers and at least two glasses of Barbar for me to work out she meant fish fingers.
Sam, I saw you at the Blog Awards, you look beautiful!
Men bearded and women like women sounds good to me too.
I had a colleague, a tiny petite little woman, say 'I wish I was so thin everyone was worried about me' one day.
I think that's why people think it's ok to go on about people's thinness in a way that would be unnaceptable to talk about fatness. 'God! You're so fat! Do you ever stop eating!' It's true that Ireland's full of over weight people, and we're all jealous of thin people. We can't imagine having to work to keep weight on.
I think whatever weight you're comfortable at is good, though I don't feel right about anything goes, because of health considerations. And I can't feel good about my own excess weight - when my husband touches my mobbly tummy at the moment, I want to leap up and run away. Well, stroll away, while having a biscuit, maybe ;)
Hey Sam, scrawny's not the word for you. You can tell when someone's weight/build is in sync and your's obviously is.
It's the women who don't look like women that bother me, with their bobbly oversized head/undersized body combination.
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I love hairy men. I love hairy, strong, forearms and hairy chests. I don't like musclemen or men that take longer than me to get ready. Clean body, not too fat, not too thin, nice face and clean clothes are basically what I'm attracted to.
And women who look like women, for sure - Scarlett johanssen, Beyonce, Catherine Zeta-Jones. I'd like a bit more of those curves but, if I had them, I'd spend my whole life looking at them in the mirror adoring my magnificent boobs and booty. I reckon as long as you're comfortable enough in your own skin you're good to go and there's no point wishing for perfection. I applauded Keira Knightly's refusal to have her boobs digitally enhanced for her latest movie, and Kate Winslet expressing her displeasure that GQ lengthened and took a third off her thighs. These images we get of celebs are usually some twenty-something-year-old fella in a digital editing studio's impossible fantasy woman.
I'm turned on far more by reality, odd gnarly bits and shaving rashes on the neck. Shaggy eyebrows, love them.
Mmmm, off to have a nice wee think about capable, hairy forearms...mmmm.
I reckon humans are like vegetables. You cook a vegetable too long, it loses its nutrients and it looks faded and blah. Humans, when we're too fat, too thin or too brown - we don't look attractive.
I reckon you can tell what weight is good for you and it is so different for different people. I am five two and weigh about 108 (that's if I got my conversions right, 49 kg and 160centimetres). I look normal (am finally thankful to my childhood chubby cheeks).
My sister is a bit taller than me and a completely different shape and we are few sizes apart.But she looks great- she has a very thin face and high cheek bones(the lucky tart). If she loses weight it looks wrong, wrong, wrong as her cheeks get slowly vacuumed in.
I like the cooking analogy, Laughy, and cheek boned tart indeed! Etheline writ large.
Sam, I know, them hairy dudes and their non shaving but capable ways....goodnight darling.
Too Fat is when it makes you unhealthy, and Too Thin is when it makes you unhealthy.
But I find I rarely judge these days.
Although I have hairy forearms, I have the feeling they're probably not quite hairy enough
Hairy forearms are good Kim, velly good indeed.
According to Etheline, at least 80% of the women in her office are what she would consider overweight. And by overweight she means carrying anything over 20 pounds for their frame. Because I'm feeling pretty mellow I suggested that we are not autobots and that everyone's body shape is different. Etheline countered with fat is fat, bones and natural shape not withstanding. I said some people can carry off a bit more weight better than others, she said 'bollocks'.
Ooh this is a sore spot with me as I've put on 2 stone recently due to illness. (When you're not able to walk about much, eating as much as when you are hitting the gym daily is not a good idea! Doh! And people give you grapes and jaffa cakes...).
I'm 13 stone now and 5ft6, although not for long! I have about a stone or so more muscle than average due to years of weights, running, martial arts, etc etc. But I would say yes, I am fat at this weight. I don't know if I'd say "obese" though. But I do notice it, especially when doing any cardio. I get tired faster.
The BMI scale does not allow for extra muscle. My normal weight is 11 stone and that's considered "overweight" but trust me I do not look overweight at that point on the scale. A wee bit of a spare tyre maybe but quads and biceps of doom :).
You'll see that BMI discrepancy far more if you're a sporty man as well.
It doesn't help that I'm from hearty country stock that piles on both muscle and fat at the first opportunity!
I've recently started piling on the pounds, I'm a 28 year old man and weighed 50kg for years and am 175cm tall. I am now nearly 57kg and I'm starting to feel it creeping around my tummy and thighs but nobody else has yet! suddenly found myself needing to eat more and more, I love overeating now and feeling full! I need to gain another 10kg. I was always underweight as a kid due to kidney problems and envied my male and female friends when they filled out!
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