Friday, June 06, 2008

Dangerous Dogs Deserve Detention.

Not slow and not easily scared off.

I"m thinking of calling the guards. But I can't decide if I'm over reacting or not. It's not a natural state for me to include Gardai in anything but in this case I think the woman in question needs a short sharp shock, and maybe visit from the local boys in blue might just be the ticket.
I'll explain the situation and you can tell me what you think.
I may have mentioned this before but there's a group of cottages grouped around a communal green near where I live and where I run. The end cottage has a mastiff or actually it could be a dogue de Bourdeaux. Either way, she is a young powerful bitch who is frequently out and about. This dog is about two, barely out of puppyhood, but already she exhibiting all the signs of an excellent and potentially dangerous guard dog.
This first time I encountered this dog I had CG's dog with me. This bitch had been running around the green with another dog when her head came up. She then chased Cg's lovely quiet dog until the owner came out and called her inside, assuring me 'she wouldn't hurt a fly.'
The second time I encountered this dog she was lying in her garden. I was jogging along the river bank and she began to bark as I neared their property, she then jumped OUT of their garden into next door's garden and out onto the green, all the better to chase me. I stood my ground and again the owner- a much older woman who is easily outweighed by said dog, came out and called her in. The dog retreated-slowly, but her hackles remained up and I realised then she meant business.
Since then I've mostly avoided running near there, but yesterday I did a loop and ended up not too far away from that house and lo and behold out pops cujo and this time she fucking charged me. I want you to look at the photo I posted and then imagine that lumbering-at speed- down a grassy bank barking in a deep hoarse bark.
Now I'm tall, and as I owned a doberman myself back in the day I don't really frighten easy. Jack Russells worry me (sorry Eolai, but they are nippy), but most other dogs do not.
I stood stock still and yelled, 'get the fuck! Go on!' in a very loud aggressive way and fortunately the dog didn't launch an attack, but neither did she look particularly worried about me, which worried me. What she did was flank me growling and even in the back of my head I was pondering my options should this bitch decide I was fair game. This dog probably outweighs me and if she bit me I'd be seriously seriously hurt. Not to mention if she knocked me down I'd be lucky to get back up again.
Fortunately before I became Pedigree Chum the old lady came out and started hollering. It took her some time to call that beast to heel, ( I will admit it probably seemed like an eternity) then as the dog slowly made her way back up the bank, casting many a look in my direction, the women started with 'She wouldn't hurt you-'
To which I replied, 'I don't give a fuck what she'd do, she shouldn't be out.' ( bad mannered of me I know but the bloody thing had scared the shit out of me and I could feel the adrenaline pumping. What if I had had my ipod on and hadn't hear her bark? She might have jumped on my moving body and pinned me to the ground.)
'That's a few times that fucking mutt has run after me! What if she bites? What if she attacks a child? What are you going to do then? Huh?? What the fuck is she doing out!!??'
Well I ranted and raved like a lunatic for a few more minutes using expletives and hand gestures and all the things you'd expect a person who has just had the heart knocked sideways with fear to do. And then I went back to my run, muttering and mumbling under my breath.
But this morning I am still fuming. I am genuinely considering calling the Guards. I don't think that woman has any real clue how dangerous that dog really is. Of course the guards won't do anything, 'being chased by a dog' is hardly a priority I know that, but that women needs to understand just how serious a risk she is taking by not keeping that beast in a secure yard. That animal is territorial and fearless, not a good combination, if she decides she's protecting the home and hearth there's bugger all anyone could do to stop her.



Blogger 5thy said...

Love dogs & have a big lumbering eejit mutt myself, but a cousin of mine has two dogue de Bourdeaux, and they're the only dogs i've ever been nervous around - they're an excellent guard dog, but their sheer power & potential to inflict serious harm makes me wary even when their owner is with me - they're not like labradors, bred to be happy to see people.

I wouldn't let my own dog out loose outside the garden; he wants to say hello to everyone but people can be genuinely frightened, and owners have to be responsible - I think a visit from the Gardai might concentrate that lady's mind & make her realise what she has on her hands. A complaint from someone unhysterical like yourself might scare her into getting a radio fence or some such measure to contain the dog & prevent a possible attack on someone.

10:56 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Thanks 5thy, I love dogs too, but I'm not joking when I say it was like watching a small rhino hurtle towards me yesterday.
I never let the doberman out and about on his lonesome, you've got to consider their temperament and the fact that as animal they have animal reactions to things. No good wittering on after an attack that the dog 'never showed signs'.

11:00 a.m.  
Blogger 5thy said...

Fair play to you for standing your ground with it, I can well imagine the couple of minutes waiting for it to decide its next move were pretty terrifying.
Some people suggest staring into an agressive dog's eyes intimidates them, and it's worked for me before with a neighbour's scary alsation, but there's always the fear that you'll just p*ss off a cranky/psycho dog even more!

11:10 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I freely admit I was absolutely scared shit less. I didn't like the way she kept looking at me sideways and trying to go around me. I have a feeling we'd still be bloody there if that woman hadn't come out. Really really unpleasant.

11:14 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is the dog black per chance?

If you call the Gards that dog will be put down, really it will, ring the DSPCA and ask them. I wouldn't do that on anybody.

I have an Alsation, he is enormous, a Labrador attacked him a while ago in the Phinox Park. He was on a lead, the Labrador wasn't, I am not afraid of dogs regardless of their size. The owner of the Labrador, a guy in about his 30's stood there calling him but made no attempt to physically intervene. The Labrador was savaging my dog. I told the guy four times to get the dog off him or I'd take he muzzle off Floyd. The owner laughed, I took it off, my dog attacked the lab, not badly now, the man kicked my dog who duly went for him, he didn't bite him. A Gard stopped and guess whose dog they tried to take? Mine, as soon as they see a dog they perceive vicious they will instruct the DSPCA to take him.

I think you should just drive up to that women house and explain to her calmly and respectfully. At the end of the day she has probably been living there years, had many a dog and no hassle, if she is not aware of the danger then it would be a terrible thing to have him taken off her. If you tell her that you are genuinely afraid I bet you she would keep him in.


11:17 a.m.  
Blogger 5thy said...

dammit, had a post written & lost it. As i was going to say, you were lucky & brave nonny to get the muzzle of your guy in the middle of a dogfight. If this other dog has been making a nuisance of itself regularly with passersby outside its own house, and is not sufficiently trained to come to its owner whilst threatening someone/another dog, then the owner should've copped it by now & realised the danger of the dog being reported/taken. She should've taken steps to protect her pet and other people. The DSPCA would probably be a more moderate approach, but I'm sure you've already decided the best way to handle it FMC

11:38 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Not black, same colour as the dog in the photo. I don't think dogs get put down unless they've got a history of biting, but maybe it's not right to involve them. I'll mull it over. I don't really want to let this go because I KNOW in my heart of hearts that dog is an tragedy waiting to happen.
I'll think on it.

11:38 a.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

What about writing her a calm, considered letter detailing the stress and potential danger that dog can cause - suggest appropriate measures - and warn that if the dog is seen loose again the authorities will be called (perhaps not the gards tho - bit drastic and terribly useless).
I was savaged by a dog when i was younger, so I know what its like myself.

11:49 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah have a think about it, going down and having a chat with her would be a good idea. You said on each occation the women came out so she must have some control. My Grandpa lives in Crumlin, originally the family farm, the dogs rambled round the place for years, i've no doubt they would have bit you, having been on the recieving end a few times. It wasn't until some new person gave out to my mother one night that they were kept in the yard. If you've been doing something for years with no hassel why would you change plus the fact she didn't retaliate when you gave out to her says an awful lot about her. Give her a chance to address it before getting the heavies in.

11:51 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry that was me, God or erm Nonny

11:53 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personnally irresponsible dog owners make my blood boil. I would definitely ring both the Guards and DSPCA. If its a listed dog its not allowed out regardless of how freindly it is without a MAX 2-3 foot chain and an adult over 16 yrs of age. That woman most certainly needs a reality check. I have a tiny miniature dachshund and I get so annoyed with people who deem there massive mongrels friendly when clearly they are not dog-friendly. My dogs NEVER out without a lead ever and I see it as totally irresponsible to exercise a dog you do not have full control over without a lease even in a park or on the beach. I would definitely report it.

12:04 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ahh Yvonne dude my dog is always on a lead but sometimes I let him off for a run. I think the attitude to dogs is getting out of control. Ringing the Gards before asking the owner to address it is mean. You have to take into account the age of the owner and the likelyhood they have been doing it for years and had no hassel, i mean obviuosly the neightbours don't mind him.

The Nonalator

12:17 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Given that it is illegal for a dog to be out without a lead on and certain dogs must also be muzzled (don't know about this breed), I'd get in touch with the DSPCA if I were you and ask them to talk to the woman before the dogs attacks a child, given that you felt that it could have taken you down and injured you severely, a child would not have a hope. It is irresponsible dog owners like this woman who give good dog owners a bad name.

12:21 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone thinks that their own dog is friendly, there are laws in place (admittedly not enforced) for a reason. If you don't own land or live near someone who doesn't mind you exercising your dog off lease on private property you have no business owning a large dog.
I live in a housing estate our gardens are VERY small and the houses around me have (seperately) 2 lab (mixes), boxer, some terriers and 1 German sheperd. I walk my dog daily for approx 40 mins cos he gets knackered easily, Im living there 3 year and out of that list I have NEVER seen either of the labs or the German sheperd being walked. Thats just cruel, those people shouldn't have those size dogs if they are not equipped to own them. The German Sheperd is let out to run around the small green once or twice a week, I like her, shes people friendly but certainly not dog friendly and the kids on the green are terrified of her. she chases them thinking its a game but as far as Im concerned the owner (who thinks its hilarious) should be penalized for this type of attitude. The owner is at fault im not blaming the dog here at all!


12:25 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Poor animals, I don't know why people have dogs if they're going to confine them to a small yard for balcony for eternity.
I'll go speak to this woman and make it clear she has a responsibility to keep that animal under control, which she is NOT doing at the moment. There's not doubt her charging could escalate into something more serious and I don't want that on my conscious.

12:51 p.m.  
Blogger gimme a minute said...

Call the DSPCA, call the Gardai, call any dodgy baseball-wielding friends you may have.

You're a tough cookie who knows dogs, which made you safer. I would have been mauled to death. A considered letter will go in the recycling. A threat of sanction is much more likely to make a difference. Or, like I say, a threat of a baseball bat to the major joints of the legs and arms.

1:09 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I'll talk to her first and make sure she understands the next call I make will be the Guards if I see it out loose again. She needs to secure it onto her own property, that much is crystal clear.

1:12 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gimmie that is terrible no wonder kids are mental you spoiled little brat. What happened to common courtesy?

Talk to the lady Miss Cat, I bet you she will listen to you, I'd bet you even more that you will frighten the heart out of her. As I said it's her road and her neighbours probably don't mind.


1:36 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Actually it's not her road, it's public property and as such she needs to keep her dog under control, but I will speak with her, after that it's up to her.

1:44 p.m.  
Blogger gimme a minute said...

did you mean no wonder my kids are mental, nonny? or all kids?

1:49 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree Miss Cat.

Gimmie, I didn’t say your kids I mean kids in general. Everybody thinks they are entitled to something these days and you are not. If a person has done something without harming anybody else for years in a house that she probably lived in before you were a twinkle in your fathers eye you should have the decency to address the situation amicably by having a word with her. That Gimmie is called putting common courtesy into practice. Your advice is something I would expect from a spoilt ten year who’s mammy still wipes his arse.


2:07 p.m.  
Anonymous AnfearBui said...

Try this site, it covers the control of dogs regulations amongst others & includes a list of dogs that need to be muzzled in public. That includes Bull Mastifs.

2:12 p.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

Nonny, Im pretty sure gimme was being humorous - no need for name calling.

2:15 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nonny you should probably check out the link. You've already said you irresponsibly let your dog off lease for a run. If you mean the Alsation you mentioned earlier, its listed and you are wrong... I presume you'll come back with the argument... but he's friendly? Regardless, its a listed breed.

2:28 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eh no he had a lead and a mussel. I am pretty sure if the want came on him he would rip your head off but he is well trained and is never given an opportunity to bite anybody. As for the list they can shove that up their arse, you can report me if you like I e-mail you me address. Nobody would be taking my dog anywhere. I never said it was right to let your dog wonder the street but taking a persons circmstanes into accout and giving them due courtesy is the right thing to do.

I wasn't slagging gimmie it was just a childish suggestion.

2:38 p.m.  
Blogger 5thy said...

Just a thought for your welfare - how will you go & speak to the dog's owner? You might have to shout at her from the gate!

2:41 p.m.  
Blogger Twenty Major said...

I'm with Gimme. When the lady is recuperating from a good beating she'll think twice about letting her dog loose.

Unless he meant beating the dog up. Which I'm equally fine with.

In fact, while you're there why not do both?

2:46 p.m.  
Blogger gimme a minute said...

but sometimes I let him off for a run

How are those chickens doing, Nonny? Are they getting on with the Alsation? Or was it a Newfoundland? And the feral cat? All one big happy family?

You are clearly unable to recognise humour of any description. Not a problem unless you were hoping to form a human relationship with someone who doesn't share your affliction.

But you are also delusional and thus possibly a danger to yourself and others. You should consider seeking help.

2:49 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I’d let him off when nobody is around, I meant he was on the lead that day in the park. I had a Newfie he was put down in November I think, I posted a little blog about it! And yes I have two hens and Floyd and my own cat and a stray cat and my friends Grandads dog and I did have a spider at one point. If you think that just because the dog is a Alsation he would eat the hens you are not very clever, ok you fabulous new age superhero daddy you!!!

Come on everybody give Gimmie a big round of applause there, yeah! Go Gimmie!

3:04 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Anfearbui, thank you for the link, very imformative.
5thy, I may have to, that and a tooth-proof vest.

Everyone else, I'll go talk to the woman tomorrow morning and see if she's willing to rectify the situation. Until then today is Friday, and I feel we're lacking a little bit of Ginger, so I must rectify that before I go back to cleaning the horror that is under my stairs. Thanks for all the comments. Cheers. FMC

3:26 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Annnyyyywayyyy, about the dog.

FMC, if she's gone after you, she's gone after other people around the neighborhood. If you've already brought it to her attention twice, you've done your part, and the Gardai can do theirs.

Of course, I don't know how differently US police and your guards treat these situations, but we've had the same sort of thing in our neighborhood recently. There were two big mutts who roamed up and down the street killing cats and attacking people over a period of a few weeks. After several personal complaints to the owners, followed by a few calls to the police and Animal Control, the owners have finally been warned with a fine of a couple thousand dollars the next time someone calls on them. They haven't been seen out for months now.

I'd talk to this woman, and give her fair warning, but keep the number for the police handy.

3:26 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ms. Cat, just looking at that picture scared me! I have to say, it isn't as if this is the first time the owner has had to intervene between you and the dog. She has had to do that three times, and that doesn't seem to have changed anything. Also, do you think you are the only person this dog has chased after? IF you do decide to go and chat with this woman, bring a witness so you'll have someone to back you up. THEN, you should check back at the house a few times in the next few weeks to see if she has done anything about keeping the dog in. Seems a bit of a hassle to me.

You are a dog owner, Nonny, not a parent. I don't expect you would have any comprehension of what it would feel like if your child got attacked by a dog like that. Dogs that are put down generally only have to attack once. Ms. Cat had the good sense and wherewithal to stand still and not run. Many children would see that animal lumbering toward them and take flight. Some animals attack things that move. It looks to me like a disaster waiting to happen.

Also, Ms. Nonny, first you say your dog is always on a leash and then you say you let him off the leash to run. Well, if he is running, off leash, then he is not ON the leash. You sound like the kind of irresponsible dog owner that gives responsible ones a bad name. The attitude that your dog would never attack anyone is just dumb. The bulk of dog attacks have occurred with dogs who never gave any inclination of wanting to attack someone until they did. And at that point, it was too late.

FMC, ask yourself, how would you feel if you heard, next week/month/year that that dog attacked someone because he wasn't properly restrained?

Talking with that woman is all very well, but who is going to follow up and make sure that the dog is properly restrained in the future?

Here is an interesting link - it lists plenty of dog attacks and quite a few of them are mastiffs both in the US and the UK.


3:35 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I only let the dog off when nobody is around. Usually late at night and not once did I say my dog is friendly and wouldn't bite anyone. I take good care of all my animals.

3:47 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The breed of dog is irrelevent. It means nothing. How you treat and train a dog will denote his behaviour.

3:51 p.m.  
Anonymous problemchildbride said...

Like the others have said - speak to the woman first but tell her if you see the dog is running loose like that again, you'll have to, for your own conscience's sake call the guards.

She probably isn't a bad old soul but she doesn't know about keeping dogs, especially the kind she's got. That's a dangerous combination.

3:57 p.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

Anonymous - I wouldnt say the breed is irrelevant, tho I do get your point.

There's a reason why pitbulls, dobermans etc have a rep, and its not 100% to do with the owners.

4:07 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here in the states that would earn the dog a healthy shot of pepper spray or some other deterrent square in the face

4:17 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

FMC, the last commenter had a point. It could come in handy to have some pepper spray just in case of an attack. You did the right thing by shouting her down. I don't expect your talk with the owners to go well. I've been arguing this with Mr. M, that you can't get bad pet owners to recognize their faults. The best you can do is get out of the way, keep yourself safe and call the authorities.

4:26 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Evening folks, I'll give you an update on the situation tomorrow, after I speak with her. If I think she's taking the piss or is not taking any notice of my concerns I'll take it further, but I'll talk to her first.

4:40 p.m.  
Anonymous morgor the animal lover said...

I have a simple solution.

poisoned meat.

5:04 p.m.  
Anonymous AnFearbui said...

ah but who would we turn to for witty repartee after you've eaten it Morgor?

5:20 p.m.  
Blogger verona said...

How about pepper spray or a spray bottle with ammonia in it. Blast the dog with that if it gets too close. Or a stick. Inconvenient to run with but if the dog's owner can't train it not to chase people, you can.

6:49 p.m.  
Anonymous dinogirl said...

Agree with Medbh, she's probably going to dismiss you right off (entirely HER problem, needless to say, what you said to her was totally justified, but still... I don't think she'll listen to you). Good luck anyway, but if I were you I'd call the Guards.

8:36 p.m.  
Anonymous stipes said...

I'm with gimmie and twenty on this one. If the old lady is unable to control the beast perhaps Lucky could do a nixer for a score?
seriously though, if you can't run within 30 metres of this thing, how do you aproach the front door?
Bring a body Garda

8:41 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pepperspray and mace and the like are illegal in the Republic. Carrying those will get you in a world of trouble with the Gardai.

12:19 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it is really irresponsible to have dogs off a lead outside of a secure garden. Regardless of the breed, or their owner's perception of how (un)likely they are to attack, it is simply not fair to other people. Regardless of the time of day either, or whether there are other people around - e.g. what do you do about a late night runner? I mean the dog might not attack - but it might scare the hell out of someone, and that just isn't fair or right. No excuses.

I reckon once on the part of this lady is forgiveable (just about); twice not so much - but a 3rd time ... full force of the law.

3:03 a.m.  
Blogger laughykate said...

If I was you FMC I would be going straight to the important people, I would not hesitate. Do not pass go, do not put on your lippy, go straight and get in your car and DRIVE.

A couple of months ago I did a story with a Dog Control officer. She believed most dogs are born good, but if raised bad, then you're screwed.

Also she said that some are so unpredicatable (ie some just turn), it could be that they are having a bad hair day or they just got a fright, but the upshot is that you don't know when a dog will go you.

I'm thinking if you have a calming controlled chat with this old lady and if she says to her dog, 'Now Rover, please don't scare the Fatmammycat next time you see her, because she's nice and beside I'm sure she'd taste like gummy bears.' I don't think it's going to make a blind bit of difference to Rover. He thinks you are after his kidneys and suspects you taste like a fine steak.

Please, please, please. Don't give the dog the benefit of the doubt in this situation.

6:08 a.m.  
Anonymous Common Law said...

If you think that just because the dog is a Alsation he would eat the hens you are not very clever, ok you fabulous new age superhero daddy you!!!

nonny, I thought your initial advice to FMC was intelligent and well balanced- but the tone of the above comment is quite unpleasant.

9:44 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you not read what he said about me? Implying that I am a liar or that I am delusional? The irony off course is that I am one on the very few that speak the God honest truth about myself. I appreciate you are bias but I suggested Miss Cat take reasonable steps before calling the Gards, if that didn’t work well then hell yeah call them. Gimme doesn’t like me that’s fine but he deliberately goes out of his way to antagonise me and that is far more unpleasant than retaliating to his abuse.


5:13 p.m.  
Blogger Conan Drumm said...

As almost savaged bitee when I was a kid I think an immediate formal complaint to the dog warden is in order. It's not your call what happens to the dog, it's your call what could happen to a human being.

11:22 a.m.  
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