Friday, September 21, 2007

Breastfeeding, Facebook, and the Meaning of the word Obscene.

Obscene=adjective, (of the portrayal or description of sexual matters) offensive or disgusting by accepted standards of morality and decency.
Offensive to moral principles, repugnant.

Right ho. We all clear what obscene stand for? Most excellent Ted.

Facebook= on line social network site. Or as they put it better, 'Facebook is a social utility that connects you with the people around you."

Alrighty, You can keep in touch with pals, post a little biography of yourself, post pictures, chat, you know, interwebby stuff.

Now facebook has some rules, like no spam, and no porn and no harvesting of email addresses, no puppy killing and no obscene images.
Fair enough.
So are we all dandy?
The let me carry on with my Friday snark.

Karen Speed.
"Facebook is getting an online scolding after the social networking site deleted pictures of nursing babies it considered "obscene content" and closed the account of at least one Canadian mom.
Breastfeeding activists are emailing, posting and instant messaging their outrage. A new Facebook group set up to petition for a change in site policy – called "Hey Facebook, breastfeeding is not obscene!" – has swelled from 7,000 members to more than 10,200 in the past few days.
"I was really ticked off," said Karen Speed, 33, an Edmonton mother of three boys, ages 9, 4 and 20 months, after five of her photos were deleted last month and her account shut down."

Face book said,

"After reviewing your situation, we have determined you violated our Terms of Use. Please note, nudity, drug use, or other obscene content is not allowed on the website. Additionally, we do not allow users to send threatening, obscene, and harassing messages. Unsolicited messages will also not be tolerated. We will not be able to reactivate your account for any reason. This decision is final. Thanks for understanding."

Karen is not taking this lying down and you can toddle on over to her site and follow up with it if you wish.
Only for the love of peel-less marmalade, if you DO think breastfeeding in public is tantamount to performing a sex orgy, don't go over, I read some of the enlightened comments 'hey Karen Breastfeeding is like taking a shit, that's natural too' and moronic does not even begin to cover it.

Seriously, this kind of poppycock get on my last nerve. Since when is feeding your child obscene? What makes people so uncomfortable about a breast doing what it is designed to do? What's all this 'people shouldn't be whipping them out in public.' Whipping them out? I've seen women breast feed and it's not like pole dancing, nobody is whipping anything anywhere. You can hardly see anything UNLESS YOU REALLY LOOK HARD ENOUGH.
People need to get the fuck over their prudish nonsense. We've got show after show on our televisions about women living with a flaccid old porn king in his mansion, or shows where the gals are trying to snare a husband-tee hee, lets run around and have pillow fights in our underwear even though we're in our thirties, magazines in shop are rife with 'barely legal totty' we have actors posing nude to flog magazines and animal rights, girls Gone Wild, Britney's ever public vagina shots, playboy logos on our kids underwear, padded bras for eight year olds, pole dancing lessons 'for strength and agility' page 3 stunnas, big brother live sex, Billie Piper glamourising prostitution ( coz it's like pretty woman y'all) in that up and coming bollocks, Secret life of a call girl, or whatever the fuck fiction it is called. WE have all this RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES!
But what do people wiggle over, what makes them go all 'ooh that's icky.'??
People need to grow the fuck up. I dislike the sound of children crying, and hungry children really really make a lot of noise. Breastfeeding is feeding a child-thus making them shut up and be quiet again. If you don't like it don't look, if it makes you uncomfortable deal with your discomfort. Either way, recognise that the last thing breastfeeding can be called is 'obscene'. Breastfeeding, if it was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for me and thee.
For shame facebook, for shame.



Anonymous bendersbetterbrother said...

The irony. Facebook making massive tits of themselves.

9:53 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...


9:54 a.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

FMC - I agree with all the sentiments in your post, there is nothing more beautiful than a mother feeding her baby........but, but, but...why would anyone want to post up pictures of themselves performing what is a beatiful and private moment with their baby.I then took a look at Karen's site and I must confess, alarm bells started ringing. The "baby" is a 20 months old toddler and must have quite a few teeth by now - and I confess I find it really distasteful seeing mothers feeding toddlers who should be able to use a spoon. There seems to be a certain kind of woman who needs to display her "motherliness" by breastfeeding their children way beyond the normal weaning age - I was once at a dinner party where a five year old boy hopped up on his mothers lap for a quick feed and I found that very unpalatable (no pun intended).

10:03 a.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

Tis strange one as it’s the natural thing in the world, but do you ever see them foreign women breastfeeding in the middle of the street, I went into a chemist on Grafton St to buy drugs and there was lady of the scruffier variety in the door way not only did she have her tits out for her wee lads but the whole of Grafton street where welcome to a gander, that’s quite mental behaviour altogether. Ordinarily you wouldn’t even know a woman is breastfeeding they are so discreet, not sure about posting photo’s of it though and that child is 20 months, perverse I tell ye!

10:12 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

She's a lactivist (stupid name) and the pictures were in a seperate envelope. I don't know why anyone would post them either Shebah, but either way and that aside, they're not obscene.
Breast feeding a five year old is a bit squiffy to me too I have to say. I believe that's more to do with the mom not wanting to let go than the kid needing the nutrition.

10:17 a.m.  
Blogger Twenty Major said...

If I was God I'd make myself born to a lady who had hot chocolate in one breast and Jameson in the other. Mmmmm, drunkbaby.

10:35 a.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

want bitty.

10:51 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Twenty Major, the Jameson effect can happen quite naturally. Back in another lifetime when the eldest of my 6ft2 sons was considerably younger and quite a lot smaller my midwife passed on this *incredibly useful* tip. If you're a new mum having one of those days; the baby's crying, you're crying and you're seriously considering abandoning the baby in a chemist and running off under an assumed name (wow, I manage to make child-rearing sound sooooo inviting don't I). Have a small glass of wine, just the one (or equivalent amount of alcohol of your choice). About half an hour later breastfeed the rug-rat. Result, you're chilled, the baby is chilled and all is right with the world. Not to be done too often though.

11:01 a.m.  
Blogger Gaye said...

LOL Sheepworrier, I want bitty! You beat me to it.
I will have to agree, there is nothing obscene about this very natural act of feeding one's baby, but having said that in this woman's case I see a little fixation or even exhibitionism, I don't know. I agree with bits and pieces of the comments here and I totally agree in itself it's NOT an obscene act. Although only a handful of women - like the one flashing it out for all to see - seem to manage to make it so, ugh.

11:03 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Bitty, *shudder*

11:04 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

What ho Gaye! Did you find Top shop and BT2?

11:05 a.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

Definitely not obscene, but perhaps a touch gratuitous? Twenty and Sheepworrier's reactions/comments seem to describe what I am trying to say, in a nutshell! Why lay yourself open to red blooded male responses unless that is why you are doing it?

11:05 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I would suppose most breast feeding mothers don't give a rat's ass about the male response. I'd imagine the only thing they're trying to do is feed their child.
(exceptions made for those very few that might be looking for attention-really, a five year old, still making odd faces over that)

11:12 a.m.  
Anonymous Primal Sneeze said...

Shebah, believe me, as a red blooded male, breast feeding is far from a turn on. It's like they are something else totally during suckling. Once the baby's done, they revert to being, well, you know.

Maybe it's because the baby draws all your attention and not the breast being pulled and dragged all out of shape - or into shape depending on what way you look at it.

12:15 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I breast fed both my kids until they started solid food at about 7 months of age (neither one was interested before that) but I nursed them for quite a bit longer. Then I kept going until about 12 months of age to supplement the solid food and they were still getting quite a lot of breast milk at that point. After that (my daughter until 22 months, my son until 34 months) I would say it is more nursing, mostly when they were taking a nap or at bedtime. A little nutrition, but mostly comfort. So, even though I am a strong advocate of breastfeeding, I can't agree that "breastfeeding" a 20 month old is just that, because a 20 month old should be getting the majority of their nutrition from other sources, at that point, it is nursing and that is more for comfort. And my kids didn't need the whiskey/wine, lol, 5 mins and they were out cold!

1:21 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

People get in a tizzy because breasts they cannot remove breasts from teh sex.

1:23 p.m.  
Blogger grimsaburger said...

About taking pictures of The Act, one of my favorite pictures from wayback is the one my dad took of mom breastfeeding me as a baby. I was a damn cute baby, but that's beside the point. It's a gorgeous picture. Don't know if I'd post it all over the internets, but it's a gorgeous picture.
I've had this conversation with Spouse, as he's my barometer for social norms pumped into the dudely subconscious, and his initial reaction was "MY boobs! MY boobs!" He was honestly a little creeped out by the thought that he might have to hand over his wife's boobs (which are HIS toys, apparently) to his own child.
To be fair, this was just a primary response and now he's totally reasonable about the whole breastfeeding thing.

2:02 p.m.  
Blogger P1P said...

Funny isn't it. Yet the groups fuck christianity and fuck atheism are still goingstrong on face book! Personally I think censorship is wrong, it treats us all like children. How about letting everyone say and show what they like and arresting the law breakers? Surely we could do with a group against breastfeeding as much as we could do with a group for it?

2:03 p.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

Pip said "How about letting everyone say and show what they like and arresting the law breakers?"

Jesus Christ, Pip, you can't be serious - are you advocating no censorship of paedophile sites? Snuff movies? And who will arrest law breakers in China, Thailand, Japan, any country in fact with experienced techies who can disguise where they are coming from?

The breastfeeding photos were apparently banned on the basis that Facebook does not allow nudity in any form, from both genders. I think that's a fair enough rule for everybody if it saves teenage girls from posting stupid tits and bums pics that they later live to regret. After all, Facebook was started as a site for school/college kids.

2:20 p.m.  
Anonymous heady said...

breastfeeding pictures on facebook aside, it isn't really anyone else's business how long mothers breastfeed their children.

You can't claim to be okay with breastfeeding and in the next breath condemn a mother for making her own choices for her own family. What you're saying is, "It is acceptable for a woman to breastfeed her child only as long as it's done in how I see fit, in this exact manner, within these exact timeframes."

That's as ridiculous as those equating breastfeeding in public to shitting in public.

You find a lot of button-pushing topics to blog about, fat mammy cat. keep it up!

3:00 p.m.  
Blogger Andraste said...

"Kiss a tit in a movie, it's an R rating. Hack it off with a chainsaw, PG-13"

Didn't Jack Nicholson say that?

3:26 p.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

Listen heady would you flash your tits at a five year old?? No, No you fucking wouldn't, you would probably be arrested if you did so why the hell would you stick it in their mouth. It's not fucking normal. Discretely breast-feeding a BABY is one thing but showing the world your cleavage is another. For fuck sake it's no wonder kids are mental.

3:31 p.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

Heady "it isn't really anyone else's business how long mothers breastfeed their children". I totally agree, they can breastfeed their 18 year olds and their husbands (and I believe some do!)-as long as I don't have to see them do it when I'm enjoying my caffe latte in my local cafe. Mothers in the human and animal world were designed to feed their infant young - and a beautiful sight it is too - but emphasis on "infant" young, not children with teeth who can probably neck a McDonalds.

3:45 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Meh, we show the world out cleavage on a regular basis. Every time I wear a v-neck or a blouse someone can see my cleavage. What about it? Seeing a womna breast feed is not even remotely sexy, it's just not a sexual act, people need to get their heads around that.
It's the calling it 'obscene' that really grated on my non breast-feeding tits.
Grims, my friend's husband was exactly the same, he got a burst of Jealousy when she breast fed her kids, his toys weren't his any longer. He got over it by the time they'd had their third child.

By the way, isn't it so disappointing to return to a restuarant you've been to many times only to find the standard has slipped?

4:01 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

The park was empty yesterday but for a young couple lying in the sun. Then the woman took her t-shirt off and suddenly, lo, the park was full of men in less than a minute. I should have taped it.

4:08 p.m.  
Anonymous nonny said...

You are a runner how do you have cleavage besides I think seeing the top of your breast is a tad different to slapping them bad boys out in public.

4:15 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I eat in between runs.
And 'slapping them out' in public ala Jodie Marsh is one thing, breastfeeding a whole other shebang. One is actively flaunting the other is not.

4:19 p.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

"slapping them bad boys out in public." Nonny, you are a one!
LOL. FMC, your blog is just the most thought provoking,provocative and hilarious blog! And some of your commenters are true one offs.
Love it to bits. Have a great weekend. Glad to see no ginge so far! Unless you can photoshop David Walliams as a ginge in his bitty role! Har.

4:21 p.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

"I eat in between runs."


4:26 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

It does sound rather 'potty' I must admit Nonny!
Shebah, look above. You didn't think I'd leave him out did you? What sort of Hellacrap Friday would that be,

4:40 p.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

Strange. Have a delightful weekend I'm off to bury my dog.

5:27 p.m.  
Anonymous eva said...

I've never understood the big fuzz about breastfeeding, I agree completely with everything you said in your post, FMC.
Not that I have seen this particular facebook posting (and I can't be bothered). But to call breastfeeding "obscene"..? Yeah right. You were spot on, FMC; some people happily watch Britney's bare crotch without a blink, but the minute they see breastfeeding; "oh no, how obscene!"
Get real.
Now the "bitty discussion" is a whole other chapter ;) Which I shall not comment on.

5:30 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Sorry to hear about your dog Nonny, it's never nice when they get old or unwell. Sometimes the kindest thing we can do for them as an owner is relieve their suffering. That doesn't dull the pain of their passing, but it is the right thing to do.

Eva, those Bitty scenes make my skin crawl, they really do, I also laugh, bt it's a grossed out laugh. Walliams is a bloody genius.

5:39 p.m.  
Anonymous Nonny said...

Thank you.

5:44 p.m.  
Anonymous Pinkie said...

I dont mind women breastfeeding their kids in public - really I dont. Find a place, sit down, do what you gotta do and get on with life, right?
I work on buses though - tour buses and I do draw the line with whipping out the teat and breastfeeding while I'm in the middle of giving a tour.
I've had women with those hammock things with babies in them too and breastfeeding - that was all ok because they were not out on display or anything.

I'm not prude - I just find it a bit unfair on those people sitting next to them to just suck it up - pardon zee pun - and ignore it. Not all people are comfortable with it - a bit of consideration on the part of the mammy would not go astray I think.

I'm with shebah on wondering why you'd want to take photos of kids breastfeeding...

7:11 p.m.  
Anonymous sucked said...

Jeez, would some of you ever listen to yourselves. Pinkie draws the line at someone letting their baby breastfeed on a tour bus?! What would you prefer, that the baby wails with hunger?

I know some people are not comfortable with public breastfeeding, But the public are just going to have to change and get used to it. The public aren't happy about a lot of things, some don't know how to handle seeing disabled people, especially learning disabled people. Does that mean we should keep them out from public view? Heck no. It's the same for breast feeding. I will bf my child when s/he needs to. As the child gets older, they don't need so many feeds, but there are still loads of advantages to keeping it going. If I had a 2 yo cut her knee in a public park, and the usual way she gets comforted is a wee suck, then she'd have it. It's perfectly easy to do it discreetly.

And Nonny went on about 'you wouldn't flash your tits at a 5yo'? Do you have any children? I wouldn't flash at a stranger, nor would I breastfeed any child but my own, but my own kids see me dress or come in for a chat when I'm in the bath. Should I be arrested? I'm not all, let it all hang out and nudest about it, but I'm not a prude either.
And have you any evidence that it's the breast fed children that are 'mental'?

But then, we all know that bodies, especially women's bodies are a bit dirty and shameful. Mustn't chance that progressive attitude now.

8:51 p.m.  
Anonymous heady said...

sucked: you said it sister.

but you know, as a breastfeeding mother, it's true. I take my breasts out at every opportunity. I show them to every single possible man woman and child I pass. and then, if I aim just right, I can squirt them with my milk. it's so much fun!

As for you Nonny. You must not have a child. I repeat again: What you're saying is, 'It is acceptable for a woman to breastfeed her child only as long as it's done in how I see fit, in this exact manner, within these exact timeframes.' bullshit. bullfuckingshit.

you don't go up to strangers and tell them what they can and can't wear do you? So why should you care when a mother breastfeeds her kid? Mind your business. that's what you should be doing.

And what exactly defines a baby? Who gets to determine that? is it before the kid is born? is it when the kid gets teeth? goes in the toilet? graduates from college? a slippery slope, it is.

one final note. I've never seen a breastfeeding mother take out her breasts and wave them in a five-year-old's face, ever. I've never seen one wave her breasts in ANYONE'S face.

10:16 p.m.  
Blogger Around My Kitchen Table said...

Well said, FMC. Totally agree that our attitudes to breasts and breast-feeding are all ass-about-tit (if you'll excuse the expression!). God forbid women should actually use them for what they were designed for. And, off on a tangent a bit - I caught a bit of Girls of the Playboy Mansion the other night and couldn't believe what I was seeing. Three beautiful young women sharing an 80-year-old man? The attraction has nothing to do with his vast wealth, of course! I've nothing against a bit of mild pornography, if that's what floats your boat, but I found it quite perverse that in the episode I saw, one of the girls was showing her FATHER and younger BROTHER her Playboy pictures. That's not normal, is it? Or am I just a prude?

10:45 p.m.  
Blogger Is it just me? said...

A friend of mines little sis (she's 27) has made the (uncool according to her friends)decision to breastfeed her baby.Mother and baby are doing great and its obviously working well.The baby has gone from small premature baby to big bouncing boy.At the babys christening last week I noticed mammy sneaking to a dark corner because of looks from BOTH men and women and it really got my goat.Her babies party, paid for by her and she feels that she can;t do something as natural as feeding the guest of honour without leaving her seat?.
She should maybe re-think the guest list for baby number two.

6:43 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

AMKT, nope, definitely not normal.
IIJM- she definitely needs to put a few friends back into their rightful places. Which is being supportive and not twats.

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