Wednesday, January 09, 2008

Animals, food, cruelty and us.



I have been watching a programme called' Kill it Cook it Eat' it every evening this week on BBC 3. ( I know I blogged about it before too) This Programme, for anyone who had not heard of it, shows the progression of the animals in question, from breeder to yard to abattoir to plate and includes a live studio audience who get to watch the slaughter and preparation of said animal. And also, should they wish, they get to taste the end result.
"The programme asks how these animals are raised, where they come from, and how they're killed and gutted. Should taste take priority over the welfare of the animal? And, ultimately, how young is too young when it comes to eating baby animals?"
On Monday it was piglets, to be made into suckling pig. Last night it was kid goats.
Now it is seriously disturbing viewing. You can see the little wee things being herded into the slaughter yard, gamboling and nervy, then they are stunned one by one with a bolt gun, then, still kicking, they are hoisted on to a chain and their throats are slit. As the blood gushed and splatters the walls, they kick their last.
It is gruesome and hard to watch.
But I believe if you are a meat eater-and I am- then you should watch, you should know from whence your food comes. You should know that when you sit down to a Sunday roast that what you are about to pour gravy over was one a young creature who had a mother and siblings and a life of its own, and that its life was cut short so that we might eat it.
I don't, I have to say, have a problem with watching slaughter, I'm from farming stock and I'm a meat eater, although I did feel bad for the age of the kids last night, it does seem awful because they are so young and so gosh darned cute. But mature goat meat is rather like mature sheep or mutton, vile. It is only when the animal is below a certain age that it is tasty to most palates.
It was however a pleasure to watch how these particular animals were raised. Not in the dark, not in tiny suffocating pens and not in pain or discomfort.
And this, not their deaths, is the point of my post today.
Jamie Oliver is hosting a show on Friday night on the wretched channel 4 which will highlight the condition in which chickens are kept and slaughtered. Expect footage of chickens being electrocuted and unwanted male chicks being suffocated.
The sequence is part of the TV chef's crusade to highlight the cruelty of battery farming, the show Jamie's Fowl Dinners, urges consumers and retailers to switch to birds reared under better welfare conditions.
Now top blogger and waiting supremeo Manuel has a link over on his site where you can register in an effort to improve the plight of our most eaten bird. If you have any interest in the welfare of our animals and food source it might be an idea to pop on over and sign.
As a meat eater I understand there is a level of cruelty involved the preparation of my dinner. Death is always ugly, and while most slaughter men do a quick and efficient job, there are some who do not. There is no need for any cruelty in the life of my dinner pre-slaughter house. The idea of animals packed tightly into cages, unable to turn, to sit, or to sleep disturbs me. The fact that some chickens from the moment they are born are kept in total darkness to keep them quiet is bothersome.
Eating an animal that has not had the chance to mature is against my better nature too. Yes there is a food chain, but where I stand on that chain is up to me.
Certainly over the last year or so my red meat intake has gone way down. I won't eat lamb or kid for that matter any longer, I no longer eat pork-except for rashers, which might also get the chop. I still like a good steak, but if I never ate one again I don't think I would weep. But chicken is a staple part of my diet-as is fish. However I now see clearly I have a very definite choice when it comes to what type of chicken I eat. And I will from now on be putting my money where my gob is. I will be seeking out only Irish bred chicken, nothing from Thailand or Asia where the standards of living for the birds is terrible, I will seek out free range birds where ever possible, and I will be taking more care and paying more attention to what and how my dinner was raised.
I will still eat chicken, unless that goes by the wayside too, and god knows anything is possible, but I will endeavour to remove my link from the chain of suffering some of these creature are subjected to.
I am not against using animals for food, but I am firmly against making them suffer before hand.

Labels:

110 Comments:

Blogger Lou said...

I watched the 'Hugh's Chicken Run' programme last night, made me very glad I'd bought free range earlier that day! Poor battery hens... A 39-day life without ever having seen daylight, Jaysus...

11:47 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

It's pretty awful. Poor old birds.

11:48 a.m.  
OpenID bendersbetterbrother said...

I've commented at manuel's on the chicken campaign of HF-W. Welfare is an important issue to most and makes the food more palatable (groan). Even eating fish has consequences. It can be argued that chicken production is fairly efficient (even organic) and definitely sustainable but fishing is definitely not.

Fish stocks are depleting to unrecoverable levels, much of the problem being bi-catch and the forced dumping of several tons of edible untargeted catch for each ton of allowed targeted catch. Fishermen can't land catch they don't have a quota for so it goes over the side and the gulls get it.

Anyway, tangent I know. Haddock for lunch you see.

12:02 p.m.  
Anonymous nonny said...

Oooh that’s nasty. I am a die-hard animal lover but I don’t mind cooking meat. At the same time is there not a more humane way of killing them, I mean like a bullet? The whole killing them when they are babies is a bit perverse I think. Just one thing though you know the way they say rearing them in a less humane way can be done to improve the taste this can also mean sacrificing the nutritional value as well can’t it? Like for example, if you take chickens who are a product of intensive farming, reared for six week, given growth hormones and killed, the meat is more tender but the nutritional value here is largely non existent. Thereby rendering the fundamental reasons for killing the animal in the first place insignificant. Whereas say you have free range chicken reared for six months not given chemical enhancers and the meat might be tougher but the nutrimental element is of real value. I know this means the meat is more expensive but as I am sure you know yourself historically chicken was considered a luxury food, it was always expensive, buying a six euro chicken in Tesco, you may as well give your kids Mc Donalds. What is the point in eating meat if you don’t get any goodness from it?

12:12 p.m.  
Blogger Birchsprite said...

hear hear!

12:19 p.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

"What is the point in eating meat if you don’t get any goodness from it?" - cause it tastes yummy!

I do agree with you tho FMC. Im originally a country bumpkin myself so I know where my food comes from ('organic' out of neccessity rather than fashion).

12:28 p.m.  
Blogger Manuel said...

bravo.......

12:44 p.m.  
Blogger Andraste said...

May main reason for going off meat was the environmental damage done by factory farming and by extension the chemicals animals are fed/injected withi and not wanting those chemicals in my body. But I will admit that I'm terribly squeamish about the cruelty and slaughter as well. Never had to see it to know it's awful - heard a pig getting slaughtered once and I'll never get that sound out of my head. My imagination can fill in the fear and panic for cows, chickens, etc. Bleugh.

Now, thanks to reading Ian McEwan's novel "Saturday," I'm getting squeamish about fish too. Gahhh.

What's left? Tofu?

1:03 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Christ I tried Tofu once, it's vile. I don't think I will ever not eat fish, it is my favourite food, but BBB's right, the standards of the fishing industry and the quota and stock depletion is absolutely ridiculous. To see ship and trawlers abandon large amounts of perfectly edible fish to stay under the limit is a disgrace. Where possible I try to eat farmed fish, but even at that you're never fully sure.
I also think Nonny made an excellent point about the standard and quality of food too. Steroid filled super growth chicken must surely be a sub-standard quality meat.
I have mentioned colour before and I want to mention it again. When I lived in spain I always bought my chicken from the markets, now these were fully grown big ugly looking birds complete with feet and heads and guts, but mercifully no feathers. I chopped their heads and feet off and gutted them myself, but let me tell you something, their flesh was a good yellow in colour and the flavour was rich and chicken-y.
A lot of pre-packed chicken sold in ireland is pale pink and tastes of absolutely nothing at all, save whatever sauce it is in.
I"m sure some of it has to do with the food the birds eat, but damn it if I am not super suspicious of it when I see it in super markets.

1:21 p.m.  
Blogger grimsaburger said...

I grew up on a farm, eating the animals we raised. Gave them names and everything--and continued to refer to their flesh in the package by their names ("Go fetch a shoulder roast of Scotty, would you?"). It doesn't make me squeamish in the least, the idea of eating meat, no matter how young. What does make me squeamish is not being able to eat our own animals anymore, and having to buy meat in the grocery, particularly pork and chicken, because I've read stuff like this.
I live in a medium-size town in the US midwest, and it's hard as hell, if not entirely impossible, to get organic or humanely-raised pork or chicken in our local groceries. Plus, compared with the quality of the meat in Ireland, it's awful. I can't properly explain to you the delight I experienced in being reacquainted with what a real chicken tasted like. We just get giant masses of meat and bone and fat that look and taste vaguely like chicken.
I really should just quit bitching and go vegetarian.

1:21 p.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

Having been brought up a veggie by my super hippie parents and rared on pulses and the like, I only tasted meat for the first time properly when I was about 17. It was a burger and I hated it. Then one of my friends introduced me to a chef guy who was delighted with this fresh palette he had been introduced to. I didn't know if I liked any of the stuff or not so had no pre determined opionions on any food other than I didn't like the smell of lamb and veal freaked me out to think about. He made me all sorts of delights from nice good quality meat and meat products that he had "borrowed" from his workplace. The difference between the food that he made me and the shitty quality "meat" that is served and sold in most of the food outlets in this country. The yellow flesh on the chicken is the fat that has been allowed to develop naturally, it gives it flavour, the infant chickens that are on the shelves in the supermarket has none of this, and therefore has no flavour. I won't eat it. I can't turn myself off good food by eating a poor imitation of it. I won't even buy eggs in the supermarket, the yolks are too pale, plus my parents have some free range hens and they have the nicest eggs I have ever eaten, yum! I eat a lot of fish, sometimes twice per day, I will eat good quality chicken, I won't eat pork, I will eat a nice fillet steak, I will eat Foie Gras strangely enough. If people are silly enough to buy the shitty quality "meat" in the supermarket, they will always have it on the shelves, if people were to stop buying it, they wouldn't be able to sell it, not that that is going to happen any time soon, but it would be nice if it could be done.

1:49 p.m.  
Blogger Twenty Major said...

Nothing is too cruel for birds because birds are fucking cunts.

I would buy chicken from a man who was especially cruel to them rather than some poncey, free-range organic 'modern parents from Viz' cunt.

Flap now you flappy cunts.

1:56 p.m.  
Blogger daisy mae said...

i have a friend who won't eat any meat that she wouldn't feel comfortable killing herself. seeing as i absolutely hate chickens and cows, i have little qualms about eating them by her standards.

my issue is the factory farms and all of the growth hormones, etc. here in montucky though we're surrounded by hutterites as well as small farms, and have a local butcher in town who will only sell meat that is local, free-range, etc. etc. you can even buy a 35 pound box of assorted meat, which cuts the cost considerably.

2:09 p.m.  
Blogger gimme a minute said...

Christ Twenty, it's chickens we're talking about, not owls.

2:10 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Oh god, why must you let your terror of pigeons colour just about every opinion you can fart out. It can all be traced back you know.

2:10 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Gimmie, he sees griffons everywhere. And by griffons I mean pigeons.
Daisy Mae, I try to buy my meat from the butcher too, I've noticed as considerable difference in quality, and as Babs points out, if we continue to buy sub par meat from supermarkets they will continue to provide it.
Grims, that was a nasty scary article.

2:14 p.m.  
Anonymous nonny said...

I have pet hens out my back I would not dream of eating them, their egg sure but eating one of them would be like eating my cat, it would be a bit odd for me. At the same time if they are reared to a decent age and killed humanly then fair play to you. Terrible that you can’t have your own. There are lots of places that do free range meat here like, Superquinn, that Absolutely Organic place but they are often unsure how long the hens live for and it is not readily available. There is a market in Naas that does them also, oh and there was one in Terenure Village, Downeys (I think). It may cost a little extra but you would be making a significantly better impact on the environment, the welfare of animals and indeed your own health. I’m outta here folks, Have a really nice day J

2:19 p.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

Meat is murder! Tasty, tasty murder...

2:57 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Eek, I had an image of a strange bespeckled man swinging a limp gladioli about the place when I read that last comment.

3:23 p.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

1st I looked up Gladioli, and now I'm even more confused...

3:43 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Think The Smiths.

3:47 p.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

Ahhhh.... snarf

3:48 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

Tofu=Soylent Green= People.
It's like eating an eraser.
Do not want!

Like Andraste, I am now questioning the wisdom of being a pescetarian. There's so much mercury and toxins and so many species are over-fished.

3:49 p.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

I think it's a mistake to anthromorphise food animals. Who knows how a chicken feels about his environment. If programmes like Jamie Oliver and Hugh F-W succeed in getting the present farming practices banned in the UK/Ireland because they are applying human values to animals, it will only mean the same meat will be imported from China and other countries, where the rearing practices are much worse. Also, even if people stop buying the two for £5 chicken in supermarkets, this might make people feel better, but the truth is the vast majority of cheap chicken is in takeaway meals, restaurant curries and readymade supermarket meals, and whereas the middle class have the luxury of choice when it comes to paying for organic, the poor are the ones who will inevitably suffer. Back to potato and rice for them. Regarding nutritional value, scientists have proved there is no difference between chickens reared either way.Even though I am convinced of differences in taste, probably due to the feed chickens are reared on, in a blind tasting of several different organic and supermarket chickens on daytime tv recently, Gordon Ramsey was severely pissed off when it was revealed that the chicken he considered the best flavoured and juiciest texture was a Tesco £3 one. Har!

3:58 p.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

Oh..and Twenty...pidgeons are delicious in a nice redcurrent sauce!

4:04 p.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

...pigeons even!

4:08 p.m.  
Anonymous Jimmy Page's Trousers said...

"I no longer eat pork-except for rashers, which might also get the chop"

Pork... Rashers... Chop... Aaaahhhhhhaaaahahahaha... 'Cos, y'know? Chop.

Hurrah for Huge Firmly-Witterstein.

4:09 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I was wondering who would notice that. Well done pants.

Shebah, without putting a while lot of stock into the emotional and psychological thoughts of any animal-even my cats- slaughtering cleanly and efficiently and making sure an animal is not in distress for the duration of its short life is not a bad thing. And having taken a look at some of the places battery chickens are held is pretty eye opening and disgustingly cruel.
By and large the standards in Ireland are pretty high and are routinely checked.
Organic is extremely expensive over here too, but buying better does not automatically equal buying organic. There is a middle ground. What might be a a slight change in our buying practices might mean a huge difference to livestock used for food.

4:25 p.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

I do agree that to our eyes some of the practices "appear" very unsavoury - but I am not sure I trust programme makers and media people to tell and show the truth when the manipulative lie has more emotional shock value. The government rules are apparently very stringent and apparently if an animal is distressed it produces natural chemicals that make the meat tastes horrid so it would not be in the interests of the meat producers to ill treat their stock. My grandmother had a small farm in Co. Kildare and used to strangle a chicken for the pot; one of my earliest memories as a child was seeing her twist a chickens neck and watching a chicken with a broken neck running around the yard - it would seem to me the stun gun bolt thing they use now would be more humane. I'm a wimp in that I prefer to see my chicken oven ready! No feet or feathers for me and I definitely don't want to see behind the scenes.

4:40 p.m.  
Blogger Twenty Major said...

As soon as animals learn to speak English and say 'Excuse me, but I do not currently enjoy these surroundings, nor am I looking forward to my slaughter' then I'll start giving a shit about how they die.

The same goes for refugees.

4:53 p.m.  
Blogger John Mc said...

No comments from vegetarians! I'll have to balance things out.

First of all: For fucks sake all, theres a little more to vegetarianism than tofu. For example, Thai, Indian, Mexican and Italian cuisines can all be veggie without sacrificing any taste. Anyway there are, (at least in the US), many excellent soy based options, in terms of deli meats, veggie burgers, sausages etc. They have really improved in the last few years. When I was back in Ireland some of the Quorn stuff was good too.

Simply put, (and I am not generally an evangelist for vegetarianism), if you eat meat you are participating in cruelty, and serious environmental degradation.That said, being aware of where your meat comes from and making decisions about what you eat based on this is laudable.

As an interesting physiological note, we are the only omnivores with long intestines, (there are negative bi-products of eating meat so getting it throught the system fast is a good idea) which does seem to indicate we are best designed for a veggie diet. There is no doubt you are healthier, I do not know an overweight veggie, and all the old people I know who are in great shape are either veggie or mostly so.

Lastly, even if you do eat meat, it's hardly neccesary to wear it anymore. There are plenty of just as good as leather options. Just one example:

http://www.vegetarian-shoes.co.uk/

5:17 p.m.  
Blogger daisy mae said...

so now that i live in a massive hunter-friendly state, i've had the opportunity to try wild game, which all relates to the 'distressed animal' and how it tastes. for instance, i've found that elk that was killed while resting tastes far superior to elk that has been startled or killed while running.... same for venison.

as for vegetarianism - i was a vegetarian for 8 years, 2 of those years i spent as a vegan. and there ARE plenty of meat-free options, i must agree.

i ended up going back to meat because i was working at a small, fine-dining restaurant, and as head server i was required to have tasted everything on the menu - or lose my job. they worked hard to get meat that was local, free-range, and well cared for. it wasn't long after tasting the menu that i started eating meat again, but with being very picky as to where it comes from.

5:29 p.m.  
Blogger Andraste said...

John Mc - I'm with you on the non-meat alternative products out there. There are TONS of products on the market now that make being a vegetarian MUCH easier than it was when I started 10 or more years ago. Everything from soy-based ground 'meat' which I use for tacos, shepard's pie, burritos, etc., to sliced non-meat sandwich slices, sausages, burgers, etc. And I make use of most of them.

I was just being facetious with the tofu thing. By the way, if cooked well, tofu isn't so bad. I make a stir-fry with it that is very tasty. Marinate it in soy sauce with some garlic and it's a nice bit of protein in with the veggies and rice.

5:39 p.m.  
Blogger John Mc said...

Theres a Chinese restaurant near me that does the most amazing Kung Pow Tofu.

My wife makes tacos with the soy based ground meat, and its WAY better than real ground meat. The kids love it too. Of course they live for going to Ireland to eat real sausages, (we don't enforce vegetarianism with the kids).

5:52 p.m.  
Anonymous nonny said...

I am a vegimitarian and whilst if I am honest I would like the world to refrain from eating my furry friends but realistically that is not going to happen. But what I would like it that they are reared and killed in a dignafied fashion but more to the point if you are going to contribute to the slaughter and suffering of animals at least have grounds to do so, that being nutritional value. There is no justification for farming not changing it’s practices, grant it production would be slower and output reduced but that is the way it should be, people don’t have issues spending 30 Euro on a Chinese why not spend the money on quality meat that is better for your family.

Twenty and Shebah, my Grandmother used to say if you could be unjustly ill to an animal you could be the same with a wee child or lady. When you consider the worlds most prominent serial killers tis definitely something to think about!!

**Shudder**

6:01 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Nonny I don't think either Shebah or Twenty would every be or have every been cruel to an animal. Let's leave the warped minds of the serial killer out of this discussion.

6:10 p.m.  
Blogger Andraste said...

John, even my meat-eating husband loves the tacos I make with that fake ground beef stuff. And that's really saying something!

Try shepherd's pie. Take the 'meat' stuff, saute it with some chopped onion and Lee & Perrin steak sauce, salt & pepper to taste, then use it in your favorite shepherd's pie recipe instead of beef. Out. Of. Control.

6:17 p.m.  
Blogger John Mc said...

Andraste I will defo try that

Nonny: Many of his biographers claim Hitler was a veggie.

6:19 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

All this talk of food is making me super hungry. Mmmmmtacos, guilt free tacos...

6:58 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

I usually make a crude comment about not liking meat substitutes when this topic comes up, but I shall not lower the discourse on FMC's blog.
Tacos with spiced refries, shredded cheese, chopped veggies and lettuce is probably the dish I eat most often. Heaven.

7:33 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

God, I miss cheddar, shredded or otherwise, I miss cheese. I'd even eat Easy Singles at this stage, and I'm not even sure that is cheese.
Argh, NO! Only some more weeks to go. Resist! REEESIST!

( Medbh, when we do go for some drinkies don't be alarmed if I keep ducking into the bathroom and returning reeking to the high heaven of Gouda or something, I'm not an addict, I swear it)

8:51 p.m.  
Blogger Dr. James McInerney said...

Bizzarely, I was just thinking about chickens today.

However, my thoughts were on the cost. Battery chickens are much, much cheaper than free range right now, however, battery chickens cost a lot of energy to produce. Lights, heat, water all cost energy.

Oil is going up in price and the 'alternative' energies are all expensive and will become even more so.

So, while free range is currently 3 times more expensive than battery, it will be twice as expensive in 5 years. The cost of producing battery chickens will go up, whereas the cost of producing free range will not increase as much.

This is, in my opinion, the point where people's opinions will change over en mass. The cost difference will be seen as 'worth it'. Battery chickens will no longer be sold in such large quantities and this might even mean that the economy of scale which these batterys depend on will no longer exist.

I hope to be able to say 'I told you so' in about five years.

Meanwhile, I would be busy buying shares in organic farms, were it not for the fact that the owners probably issue shares in return for eggs or salt or reusable hemp bags.

9:44 p.m.  
Anonymous Sam, Problemchildbride said...

Excellent post, fmc. I have little to add to what's been said. One thing though. If I was pregnant again, I'd make sure to eat only organic meat. It's a bit more expensive but worth it, I reckon. My kids get only organic milk and meat (buying it local is cheaper) because whatever effect all these antibiotics and steroids have on our adult bodies, you can be sure to multiply it several times over in our growing kids.

9:44 p.m.  
Anonymous Sam, Problemchildbride said...

Tofu's not that bad if you marinate it. Seriously. I mean it's not brilliant but it's OK. I'm no gourmand, mind you. I mean I like tasty food and stuff but if I didn't have a family I would very happily eat the same things every week. I did it for years pre-kids. It was easy, simple and it's 3 less things in the day to think about if you already know what you're having.

I reckon my indifference is due to the pale imitation of food we get in supermarkets. When I was wee, I loved food which was mostly local, organic (although noone would have even thought to say organic at the time) cheap enough and humane - we can still get our animals slaughtered at the abbatoir in Lewis and nobody but the very way out rural does it themselves.

Nowadays, the supermarket salmon tastes a lot like the supermarket chicken and the supermarket pork. I don't eat organic meat myself, although I give it to my kids - it would cost a whack if we were all eating it every day - so I eat mostly fish like yourself and am bothered by our fishing practices. How to choose well with that is hard. Farmed fish are riddled with dyes and antibiotics, anti-fungicides etc., wild fish stocks are in peril everywhere, but I don't have the time to be fully veggie and be combining my proteins for the right mix and stuff, plus be keeping my husband and kids happy. I know that this means hypocrisy on my part and I contribute to the problem. Maybe I'll sort myself out with that in this new year and try to eat a bit cleaner.

10:05 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Docky, as a matter of interest, free range chicken in Tesco is only between 7 and 8 Euro something for the entire bird, which is not that bad at all. ( I was there earlier buying tea bags and I had to go over and take a gander)


Miss sam you're such a late lass, You're quite right about the salmon if is dyed pink in many cases, but short of me going out and killing my own dinner every day I still feel better about eating fish and trying to stick to the farmed stock.
The older I get the less I like the taste of meat anyway, I will always go for the seafood or fish option left to my own devices. And I had to laugh when I read you'd just eat the same thing week in week out. I'm a bit like that too. I could safely have the same food over and over (mashed potato, beans, toast) and never get tired of it, but the Paramour claims it's not normal to eat that way.
Goodnight.

11:33 p.m.  
Blogger John Mc said...

Sam

The protein thing is a red herring unless you are vegan. It's really hard not to get enough protein. You don't need a lot of it. I surf, do yoga weight lift, cycle depending on mood and time of the year, and I never think about protein. I get a full yearly health check and it's never an issue. Being a veggie after the initial effort is very easy and way cheaper than eating meat.

12:01 a.m.  
Anonymous sheepworrier said...

"Bizzarely, I was just thinking about chickens today" - I know how you feel Doc...

10:07 a.m.  
Anonymous Babs said...

There is a place on Drury Street called Blazing Salads that does this lovely pre marinated tofu and also a smoked tofu that goes lovely in a stir fry, yum yum! The pretend meat stuff freaks me out, I ate a quorn pepper "steak" the other day, it tasted like a real steak, which sort of defeats the purpose no? We only had tofu as kids and this stuff called "sosmix" for making sausage rolls which is delish, only you can't get it anywhere anymore.

11:21 a.m.  
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