Tuesday, July 08, 2008

Dangerous Dog List.

Finally! At LAST! A comprehensive list of dangerous dogs. Dogs that go snap in the night/day/late afternoon. The study was published in the journal Applied Animal Behaviour Science and was based on interviews with 6,000 dog owners by researchers at the University of Pennsylvania. This was not the result of scare mongering or ' the look of' a dog or a terror of breed specific animals, this was honest to goodness plain old research and it makes for interesting reading don't you think?

Here is the list of dogs most likely to bite you.

1- Dachshund.

2- Chihauhau

3-Jack Russell- (I am not in the least bit surprised, this is the breed that has threatened me the most while running.)

4- Akita

5-Australian Cattle Dog.

6-Pit Bull


8-English Springer Spaniel

9- Border Collie ( savaged me as a child, I almost lost an ear)

10-German Shepherd.

From the Mail.
"One of the researchers, Dr James Serpell, said the findings suggested smaller breeds were more genetically predisposed towards aggressive behaviour. Previous research into the area has generally been based on dog bite statistics.

But bites from larger dogs are more likely to need medical attention and the researchers said this might have skewed results as most attacks were not being reported."

Exactly, a nip or a bite from a small dog might go completely unreported.
Now let's have a look at the list of 'dangerous dogs in ireland, animals that must be muzzled at all times in public, that must be on a leash at all times and controlled by a person no younger than 16 years old.
American Pit Bull Terrier,
English Bull Terrier,
Staffordshire Bull Terrier,
Ban Dog, ( I'm assuming a pit bull x)
Bull Dog,
Bull Mastiff,
Doberman Pinscher,
German Shepherd (Alsatian),
Rhodesian Ridgeback,
Japanese Akita,
Japanese Tosa

(Funnily enough according to the study pit bulls, rottweilers and Rhodesian ridgebacks all rated average or below average for hostility towards strangers.)

Now I'm not bloody naive, I know a bigger dog can do far more damage-in theory- than a small dog, but this should be read by all those annoying people who rabbit on about dangerous dogs and banning dangerous dogs.
All dogs have the potential to be dangerous. From the smallest to the very largest. There should be no breed specific targeting. As a former Doberman Owner it annoys the shite out of me that they are on the list in this country. Why should a doberman be muzzled and NOT a Jack Russell (not picking specifically on JRs but hypothetically, but why not them or labradors?).
All dogs should be controlled in public, well trained, socialised, exercised daily and well fed. Responsible dog ownership should be enforced, not breed specific scaremongering.
I'm glad to see this study doing the rounds, I wonder how many people will take the blind bit of notice of it next time a 'devil dog' hits the news stand.

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Anonymous sheepworrier said...

My family used to have a jack russell when i was a wee'un - absolutely vicious wee bastard that turned on me a good few times, but no matter how many bites it gave, it was never considered a 'dangerous dog'. Same with the collies that savaged my sister and me (different dogs, years apart) - they were never considered 'dangerous' despite putting us both in hospital.

This study is long overdue.

11:17 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As the owner of a miniature smooth haired daschund I can corroborate that they certainly are VERY likely to bite. Mine has bitten my on four occasions, one of which required a tet shot. Three of the bites broke the skin. They seem to have a switch in their head that just flicks and they lose control. I thought it might be that mine just had a bad temperment but having spoken to other owners, they all have the same story.

Now, when my little niece comes over we have to lock him in his kennel, as I dont trust him, I mean he's bitten me for godsakes. In households where maybe no thought goes into such matters, imagine the potential for injury. You may think a miniature daschund is a small cute looking dog, but let me assure you that they have a savage bite and could inflict horrific injuries on a child. Why do I keep him...well that's a good question, anyone else would have him gone by now, I like to think of him as an independently minded loveable rogue, when he's good ...he's very very good and when he's bad....well you don't want to know.

11:24 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

It's funny isn't it. My oldest friend was bitten really badly as a kid by a Kerry Blue belonging to her aunt, the aunts response was to suggest she was 'tormenting' the dog by running about. No thought that keeping the poor animal chained up 16 hours a day might be the actual cause of it's ill temper.

11:25 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Sorry Anon we crossed, three times? Yikes. Is it food aggression? Territory? Or random biting?

11:26 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As the owner of a miniature smooth haired daschund I can corroborate that they certainly are VERY likely to bite. Mine has bitten my on four occasions, one of which required a tet shot. Three of the bites broke the skin. They seem to have a switch in their head that just flicks and they lose control. I thought it might be that mine just had a bad temperment but having spoken to other owners, they all have the same story.

Now, when my little niece comes over we have to lock him in his kennel, as I dont trust him, I mean he's bitten me for godsakes. In households where maybe no thought goes into such matters, imagine the potential for injury. You may think a miniature daschund is a small cute looking dog, but let me assure you that they have a savage bite and could inflict horrific injuries on a child. Why do I keep him...well that's a good question, anyone else would have him gone by now, I like to think of him as an independently minded loveable rogue, when he's good ...he's very very good and when he's bad....well you don't want to know.

11:30 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sorry FMC I double posted.
I really think it's genetics. All these beeds were bred for specific purposes in the past. For example Jack Russels were primarily ratters, so they do have a snappy tendency and Daschunds were used in Badger baiting, so had a vicious streak.
Also, many show dog breeders and unscrupulous puppy farmers breed closely related dogs, thus exaserbating the problem.

The best friendliest dog bar none, is the lovable Heinz 57 mutt and the healthiest, call it hybrid vigour, but you'll seldom be at the vets

11:35 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Aye, I think certain breeds definitely have certain 'traits' too. The doberman was an excellent watchdog, not vicious in any way, but naturally alert to sounds and strangers. My father's collie would herd clouds if left to his own devices. CG's dogs is mostly spaniel and is obsessed with water.
And Jack Russells seem be incapable of NOT chasing moving objects!

11:41 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it is largely down to the way you have a dog and the individual dog and not a specific breed.

I also think all dogs should be chipped and held in a secure place. I think the two main causes of dogs attacking is, not disciplining the dog so they have respect for people and something I just can't understand, leaving a child alone with an animal, why would anyone in their right mind do such a thing? My Grandmother would have always been there. I think they should heavily penalize people found leaving animals and kids together unsupervised. I swear to God my dog is the most chilled out fella under the sun but he weights 2lb more that me if the want came on him he'd destroy a child so he is never given the opportunity.

The only beef I have is that off an evening it is good to let him off the lead for a run, evening with him wearing a mussel their are few places you can do that now.


11:47 a.m.  
Anonymous Shebah said...

All dogs have the potential to be aggressive - but good training and socialising plays a part - but it is never safe to assume a dog will be ok with a small child as they tend to pull and pinch animals. Any dog that has bitten once should either go through stringent retraining or be put down - regardless of size, as next time it could kill a small child. It is not worth risking. Bad owners = bad dogs. I remember when I was a kid and one of my pals was bitten by a neighbour's dog - the owner said "Ah, he wouldn't hurt a fly, you must have teased him". There is no limit to the stupidity of some dog owners.

11:50 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

True, I'd be in the same boat if I had a doberman again, public muzzling and no free running- regardless if he was the easiest going dog in all the land.

11:51 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

"I remember when I was a kid and one of my pals was bitten by a neighbour's dog - the owner said "Ah, he wouldn't hurt a fly, you must have teased him". There is no limit to the stupidity of some dog owners."

That's exactly the stupid gobshite that shouldn't own a dog in the first place. The 'aw he wouldn't' crowd. Yeah he would/could/might/just did.

11:54 a.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

Malcolm Gladwell had a great essay on this and you're right, every breed listed has been recorded to have bitten. The most likely dogs to bite are in tact males who have been neglected/chained by its owner.

I don't want to see my poor Cattle Dogs on the list! They are bred to bite at the cows though.

12:03 p.m.  
Blogger Dr. James McInerney said...

My Nephew was in my parent's house last month and he fell on the collie dog that was asleep. The collie reacted, bit my nephew and gave him 31 stitches across his face, nearly ripping off his ear and bottom lip.

Now the dog was a pretty good dog. Never growled at anybody or snapped at anybody and was very playful and only about 18 months old, but big and strong nonetheless.

The dog is now dead.

The point being that even though a large dog might not be as aggressive as a small yappy dog, (s)he can really do a lot of damage. So, the dogs that should go on the prescribed list should be there because of the combination of likelihood to bite multiplied by the kind of damage they could inflict in an instant.

There is a big difference between a tetanus jab and not having a face or being dead.

12:08 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

So sorry to hear about your nephew, I hope wasn't too badly hurt.
I agree a big dog can do considerable damage, of course they can, but what constitutes dangerous? What happened in your parent's house was an terrible accident, the dog did not seek him out to attack.
Dogs and small children, a terrible combination really.

Medbh, I know, I thought of your babies when I saw it!

12:13 p.m.  
Blogger morgor said...

Dogs are animals.

Some people tend to think of them as accessories.


Having a large dog in a city seems a bit cruel to me, they'll never have enough space or freedom.

12:15 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I suppose it depends Morgor, if you're prepared to exercise your him, a big dog can do grand in a city. But owners have got to be prepared to do it, even on the wet days when they REALLY don't want to go outside.
A lot of bigger breeds don't even require a much exercise, it's the high energy dogs that need plenty of exercise and they come in all sizes.

12:21 p.m.  
Blogger morgor said...

if you're prepared to exercise your him, a big dog can do grand in a city.

I suppose, but how many people are going to treat their dog as well as they need to.

It would still be much easier to treat a dog properly in the countryside.

Too much hassle for me, maybe i'll get a cat.

12:26 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Ye----as, get one of those.

12:37 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dr. James that was terrible it seemed like an accident. Your poor nephew.

I can honestly say I don't know one person my family or friends who has been viciously attacked by a dog. Not one. Kids would not be let near them unaccompanied and thats it. If a new kids visited my house the dog would have a mussel on, I lurve my doggie and would hate anything to happen to him.

I still don't buy the breed thing. It's they way you have the mutt I think.

Morgor I have a big dog, my father walks him every evening and he comes running with me. He is super fit. He doesn't like getting dirty or wet, he also sleeps in my bed, under the covers, I think he is a city slicker, the country life would not be for him.


12:43 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the breed thing" is a fact I'm afraid. Genetics play a big part in man made creations like dog breeds. I mean they did not magically appear as daschunds or jack russels, people actually created them through selective breeding. I agree that human handling and interaction (or lack of) has a big part to play, BUT and this is a but...certain breeds are genetically pre determined to dispaly certain charecteristics for that breed, any dog owner will tell you the same.

12:59 p.m.  
Blogger morgor said...

I thought that most people have either been bitten or chased by a dog at some stage.

We had terriers and jack russells when I was young and they were right little shits.

We got them put down for biting in the end.

Never had any trouble with sheepdogs labradors or my friends rhodesian ridgeback (although he's a big freak of a dog).

1:09 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't anyone who was viciously attacked and had to get it treated, do you?

Them rhodesian ridgeback are getting very populular these days.


1:21 p.m.  
Anonymous Sniffle&Cry said...

Good stuff outa you FMC but keeping dogs from biting is like trying to design a train which would be safe in a crash. I think you might be asking the wrong questions. It’s sorta like morgor said, the city is no place to keep a dog. And with respect, your Doberman, I could never believe that this dog (not yours in particular which must have been well looked after) could be safe around people. Also, I don’t think you have any Korean contributors here!

1:41 p.m.  
Blogger morgor said...

Don't anyone who was viciously attacked and had to get it treated, do you?

yeah, our little terrier bit a child, i was only about 10 at the time but the child was there with his parents and my parents but i didn't see exactly what happened but the dog took a chunk of skin off the kids face close to his eye.

He was put down the next day. (the dog not the kid).

Can't remember what our next dog was, it looked a bit like a mini-doberman.

Anyway, that used to chase sheep everywhere so that got put down too.

My mam just has cats now.

1:50 p.m.  
Anonymous problemchildbride said...

I agree with Doc James. The potential damage factor should be added into determining which dogs are on this list.

Jack Russells and daschunds should be on the list because they are both aggressive and can seriously damage a child. Pitt bulls and rottweilers etc. should be on it because they are bred for aggression and they can seriously damage an adult.

The reason I think that these dogs should be muzzled in public is because you cannot legislate for responsible dog-ownership. I know there are plenty of conscientious, excellent dog owners that understand their animals and ensure they have all the exercise and affection they need to thrive. But too many people think these big dogs are status symbols or hardman accessories and these are the people and those are the dogs we need to worry because when they attack you have more than stitches to worry about.

You cannot make people responsible for their dogs with laws. You cannot be with them all day pointing out all the situations that could easily set off their highly wound dogs off. That is why I am in favour of public muzzling and leashing of these breeds on footpaths. I think ideally there ought to be places where they can run free, but until there are, I'm for the public muzzling becasue it's the owners you can't trust, every bit as much as the dogs. Some are excellent, some have no business owning as much as a gerbil.

I don't believe in evil, demon dogs. i don't believe there's any moral component to a dog's behaviour. That's where humans come in.

I do think that the formula computing the likelihood of a bite x the potential damage caused is a useful tool in determining which dogs it's in the public interest to muzzle. It's not ideal but, as long as you cannot be sure a dog-owner is responsible, and as long as irresponsible* people can keep dogs whose bite pressure averages at 320lb psi, I'm inclined more towards safety and the right of people to walk unbothered by dogs, than dog-owners rights. It's imperfect but is as reasonable a solution to dog-bite tragedies as I've seen so far.

* Determining who is and who isn't responsible is a minefield, plus, even for the exemplary owners, it's during the 10% of times, a dog owner slips up - we're all human - that a pent-up, over-excited dog can do the damage. Will the good guys, the great dog owners, be unfairly penalised under such laws - yes, but the laws are still the best measure I know to cover us from the bad guys, and I believe it's in all our interests to put public safety first in this case.

2:50 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

It's okay S&C, I know where you're coming from.
Dobermans are highly intelligent dogs but they require an experienced dog owner-I personally believe- a LOT of socialisation from puppyhood, obedience training-which they're excellent at- and plenty of company.
They're not the sort of dog you get stick in the back garden and hope it behaves itself. On top of that they can be naturally aloof and watchful and protective of their owners, so a poorly socialised doberman is a disaster waiting to happen.
On the flip side, when brought up right they make truly exceptional pets, plus they're clean, hardly shed and like nothing more than snoring in front of an open fire, and they can be surprisingly goofy.
It's just so unfortunate when a breed of dog gets a bad rep because a total gobshite gets his or her hands on a certain type of dog.

2:57 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Morgor, cats steal your breath when you're sleeping, apparently. I'm surprised I've survived this far.
Aye Sam, I'd agree that better a muzzled dog than a savaged child any day. But I do blame the shit/stupid owners for this law. And you can be sure they will still be the ones going about the place with the unmuzzled dogs.

3:00 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"On the flip side, when brought up right they make truly exceptional pets"

I think this is true of all breeds, in general I think the whole breed thing is scare mongering put about by people who either have a little experience of the so deemed dangerous dogs or are afraid of them themselves. I do put a mussel on my dog when I take him out but it annoys the shit out of me when I take him to the park in the evening I can’t let him off the lead. It also annoys me that if he were to bite either of the two little brats that live over the back from me, the ones who seem to have nothing better to do than throw empty coke bottles in at him or sit on their shed teasing him and throwing things in at the hens, that the dog would be put down. Branding an entire breed of dog dangerous is the height of stupidity, if you are a responsible dog owner who trains him well and doesn’t let him near young children unsupervised you will have absolutely no problems. The funny thing is the most dangerous animal I ever had was a cat, the little fucker wouldn’t even let the milkman in the garden.


3:27 p.m.  
Anonymous problemchildbride said...

Nonny, what a pair of little toerags to throw stuff at your animals? Do their parents know they do this? They might need a visit to inform them of what their little darlings get up to out of their sight.

4:48 p.m.  
Blogger PI said...

Little dogs are snappy by nature - corgis herding sheep - now they have to make do with post- men and maybe some are little bitey but there's no malice at all at all.

4:48 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

There's a house in Ternure that used to have a 'Beware of Cat' sign on their front wall before the got a new electric gate. A big old black and white fluffy Tom lives there. He's always sprawled out on the front step.

4:50 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

I feel the same way about serial killers Pat.

4:50 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know Sam. I have gone around to their mother, a veteran of the social welfare it seems. I don’t know what is worse knowing that she doesn’t give a shit or knowing that you are paying for her to slam that door in your face or for her not to answer it at all. I know it is a civil matter but I tried the Garda about a month ago on the off chance they’d give out to them but alas the boys in blue have better things to do. They have been fairly quite the last couple of weeks but if they start up again it will be war. War of the splattered eggs straight from the little mofo's strapping right arm variety.

I know Miss Cat. That mini we had was mental. He would only let my grandmother pet him and he used to sleep on her head.


5:16 p.m.  
Blogger Medbh said...

One way we're conditioning them not to bite is when their mouth is on you to press a finger down on the tongue. Makes them stop.
I would only do that with your own dogs.

5:56 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Right, letting them know it's not okay even as pups makes good sense.

7:43 p.m.  
Blogger daisy mae said...

i'm not sure what it's like outside the states, but over here i think there's plenty that can be done to reduce 'dangerous' dogs.

the first is regulate breeding - having managed an animal shelter, the majority of the dogs we took in were purebred animals that the owner decided they didn't want. there are no stringent laws over who can breed and sell, so it's a HUGE moneymaker if your dog gets knocked up.

secondly i think that animal shelters and breeders have a responsibility to adopt out an animal ONLY when it is a good fit. i've definitely turned down people for adoptions because they wanted to leave the dog outside, wanted it strictly for fighting, didn't plan on exercising it, etc. it makes people quite mad, and the pervasive sentiment is that one has an ENTITLEMENT to own a dog - which i heartily disagree with.

while my shelter mutt wouldn't intentionally hurt someone unless there was a threat, i still keep him on a leash at all times in public (no muzzle laws) and actively avoid people/children/other animals if he's being rowdy.

as for city dogs - there are plenty of options. we used to take the mutt to 'doggie daycare'.... so 3 times a week for 10 hours a day (while we were at work) he was fully supervised, ran around several acres, went swimming, and played with other dogs. he loved going, and we loved getting an exhausted dog back. daycare and walking services are proliferating in cities. BUT, if you make the choice to own a dog, that also means you have to consider where you live as well. it breaks my heart when people surrender animals because they're moving.

7:49 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Agree on all points, DM.
On a different tangent I have NO IDEA how you managed a shelter, that would slay me, I'd end up taking half the animals home with me. And bitch slapping people for being stupid a couple of times a day.
Neuter and spay, neuter and spy. It should be tattooed on some people's forearms.

8:51 p.m.  
Anonymous Green Ink said...

All dogs are cunts.

9:15 p.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Now now GI, that's reiki practitioners you're confusing them with.

9:29 p.m.  
Blogger Twenty Major said...

I'm eagerly awaiting the "fucking Romanian dogs" comment.

11:49 p.m.  
Anonymous Green Ink said...

Ha Twenty! You do realise the kind of traffic you've just generated for FMC? I never realised what the internet is actually for until the stats for my F'ing Dogs post.

12:23 a.m.  
Anonymous Betty said...

That's so true about daschunds! We had a long haired one who could be a real brat when he wasn't striking simperingly sweet poses. Totally agree with Sam's point that you can't legislate for idiotic/ feckless owners. A flatmate of mine worked at a dog shelter and I remember her telling me about stupid pet owners that had left their two year old son alone with their Doberman with horrific consequences. They didn't put the dog down but dumped him in the shelter where he was unlikely to be adopted.

12:32 a.m.  
Blogger Twenty Major said...

Are Romanian dogs the in-thing for today's active dog fuckers?

Jack Ruby was a dog fucker according to James Ellroy but I suspect Ellroy has buggered a few hounds in his time.

12:32 a.m.  
Blogger rgblog said...

Here is my list of aggressive dogs based on what friends and I have observed:

They are Pit Bull Terrier, Bull Mastiff, Doberman, English Bull Terrier, Alsatian, Japanese Akita, Japanese Tosa, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Rottweiler and Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

I think proper training is absolutely necessary to help ensure a healthy environment especially for dogs disposed to problems such as Pits.

I agree that training should include positive rewards. Owners should always have treats with them while walking their dogs to reward positive behavior at the time of the act.

Good odg !!

5:34 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

Ellroy, how I love his mucky little mind. Wonder if he will ever bring out another book?

Betty, what a pair of idiots.Toddlers by their very nature are loud clumsy little people. I wouldn't leave my toddler alone with a poodle.

Rgblog, I don't believe I've ever even seen a Japanese Tosa in real life-but I'd like to. Where on earth did you see one?

8:51 a.m.  
Blogger Twenty Major said...

Wonder if he will ever bring out another book?

He's probably too busy snowballing Lassie.

9:12 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I only learned what snowballing was last week and I was quite disturbed, no actually, appalled, I was quite appalled.

I like Ellroy but he's seems a bit mad in recent years plus they murdered The Black Dahlia with that shite film.


9:19 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Those fucking Romanian Daschunds...ship em back over where they came from

9:30 a.m.  
Anonymous Green Ink said...

@Twenty: I didn't know it was such a popular activity, give FMC a few days to see how popular the Romanian dog fucking niche is. I'm guessing: quite popular in Romania.

9:57 a.m.  
Blogger fatmammycat said...

oh jaysus.

10:15 a.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I live in a councl estate and have a staff pitbul cross as a family pet... we bought her off sum lads tat wer misstreating her. id neva had a so called "dangerous dog" before n was kinda afraid of her bu after we brought her in2 d house she was shakin wit fear n she was hand shy which is a sign tat she was misstreated! i felt so sorry 4 her n now shes like my best friend dunno how ppl tink these dogs ar dangerous coz shadow(my dog) is a total sweetheart!! people who havnt owned a pit or staffy shudn b aloud 2 have a say in weather they shud b band or not!! Its not the dogs fault its a "bad dog" its d owners fault for makin them a "bad dog" by not trainin or treatin them right!!

7:56 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wtf japinese Akita is not dangerous dude read i am not joking dont post crap u dont know and beagle is not dangerous either (stop posting crap u dont know)

10:38 p.m.  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

................... read i am not joking ............................
Dashcund is not Dangerous dont listen to the bull crap he says trust me!

10:40 p.m.  
Blogger Maria Paula said...

I have always had miniature pinschers, my family has always had them actually.

I used to live in Sao Paulo (Brazil) and we used to have one as watchdog. And they certainly do their job well: they keep affar pidgeons, rats, cockroaches, and, off course, thieves.

I rather think they are really agressive for such small dogs!

Off course, with family they can be educated to be really loving. My sister's pinscher is the most loving dog I have ever seen, he loves to curl arround us in the sofa and to be carried arround. owever he should be certainly kept apart from other dogs.

5:14 p.m.  
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12:31 p.m.  
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