Gary Glitter, unmoored and unwanted.
Hong Kong says no, Thailand concours. So no country wants to allow convicted paedophile Gary Glitter entry to their country and he doesn't want to return to the UK where he will be monitored and required to sign on to a sex registry. Will this mean he'll have to spend the rest of his life in an airport? Left in international limbo like a character from a Tom Hanks film? Hmm, I'd like to say something smart and pithy, but all I can think of is serves the dirty fuck right. I hope he is hounded for the rest of his miserable life. Yes I am that sort of person.
Labels: paedophiles.
posted by fatmammycat at 8:57 a.m.
53 Comments:
Would you be of the view that a peado can't be rehabilitated FMC, or that his sentance wasn't equal to the crime? The 'lets castrate the f**ker' view is always going to be unrealistic.
I don't know sheepworrier. I agree with you, but I don't think he showed any remorse.
Would you take him into your home? Given that he has no interest in coming back and facing up to what is expected of him to protect other children.
I wonder where it is he wanted to go live... and why.
I would be of the view Sheepie that this particular gent would happily reoffend given any opportunity. And as far as rehabilitation I have grave doubts paedophiles are ever rehabilitated, because I don't think the urge ever truly goes and I would never be comfortable knowing there was such a person in my vicinity.
I said this other day they cannot be rehabilitated. There is absolutely no way a person can engage in such horrendous acts on a child and then learn the error of their ways. I don't believe it for one second. I am all for prison reform and rehabilitating criminals but rapists and paedophiles are different altogether, they destroy lives for sexual gratification.
“The 'lets castrate the f**ker' view is always going to be unrealistic.”
Also, I am definitely for mandatory castration once convicted. Castration is proven to significantly reduce sex drive and it eliminates the risk of victims getting pregnant or contracting STD’s
Nonny
Also, he should have been jailed for life.
It's the idea of him being free to abuse again that bothers me too. Because I've no doubt he'd find a way.
This individual case worries me a bit, as having extensively travelled in the Far East, I know that sex with children is openly for sale and the authorities appear to be operating a double standard with this particular individual, who seemed to be prosecuted because of Western media interest. I do not condone what he did, but there are still thousands of men travelling every week to Vietnam and Thailand for sex with minors. It is also endemic in some Arab countries which is why Michael Jackson became an honorary Arab for a few years. Why don't the governments of these countries close down the bars/clubs offering children for sale? If authorities are serious about this, they need to crack down on it hard from the top (though the authorities probably have some high profile paedos of their own).
Good point Shebah. I was pleased but baffled that Thailand didn't want his business - this makes sense alright.
Nonny, castration is an ethical question - what if they were wrongly convicted? what path does wilful mutilation in the name of 'civilized' law lead us down? It may be effective, but so is cutting off hands as a punishment for theft - doesn't mean it's right.
Jesus that remind me of reading an article years ago of actual 'sex tours' where I think it was German operators where organising tours where the whole idea is for men-and it was mostly men- to meet up with young people for sex. It's so fucking depressing isn't is? Children being sold for sex and buyers lining up to use them. I don't get it, I don't get what anyone finds sexual in a child.
Shebah – you are right of course, the only reason he was punished was because of the media circus that surrounded him and the fear that failing to reprimand him would result in bad publicity for the country. Also, I have traved to Asia and India many times to look at matters such as this but more specifically child trafficking and what you hear and see is horrendous. They don’t seem to have the same respect for children as the western world and their judiciary is a joke. As you all know I am opposed to drugs but my ability to put things into perspective is not wanting. When you look at the likes of DJ Grooverider (Raymond Bingham) he was sentenced to four years imprisonment for bringing marijuana into the United Arab Emirates. You would not even have got arrested here for the amount he allegedly had. Yet their laws on child abuse seem non-existent, sure Jesus if a women is raped she is deemed at fault. I was in Dubai recently and the thing that sickens me is the Arab men standing in the hotel bars waiting on the Russian and Asian prostitutes to come in. Thailand and India are the same. I know Glitter was made an example of but if it highlights there lax laws, good enough for him.
Sheepy – Providing there is overwhelming evidence castration should be mandatory. Some states in America do it I think. They cannot be rehabilitated and once they commit such a terrible crime we have no humanitarian responsibility to them, the only people we need to think of are potential victims.
Nonny
FMC said "I don't get what anyone finds sexual in a child."
I sort of can - it is the pure, unsullied innocence coupled with the absolute perfection of young children - and this is what makes most mothers (and fathers!) fiercly protect their children, and try to keep their innocence as long as possible. Most normal people appreciate and enjoy this beauty without feeling the need to corrupt it. The concept of somebody trying to spoil that innocence is what I can't get my head around. Obviously a kink in their brain. Perhaps a lobotomy on the bit of the brain involved me be the answer :-)
That's just it, I don't get the desire to sully the unsullied. Protect sure, but to deliberately go out of your way to seek and groom and pervert? Even the language is grotesque to me, the use of 'love' in context with child abuse, the conflation of sexual desire and blatant violation. And it's so fucking widespread.
I had a conversation with a good friend of mine recently and I was thinking of Conan's story of galloping away from someone who he knew was trying it on with him as a child. I was saying to this girl, fuck, who amongst us hasn't been touched up or inappropriately propositioned or approached as children, and she agreed. Some of us were luckier than others not to have been molested, but there's a huge number of people out there who cannot not say the same, but a lot of these casual 'incidents' go entirely unreported-especially if it was years ago.
Bah, this type of talk annoys me and makes me very cross. I must go for a run.
I saw him on the news on a plane with about 20 paparazzi harrassing him non-stop taking pictures of him.
I thought, "that's horrible".
then though " but fuck the dirty pervert anyway, he deserves much more punishment than that".
I hate celebrity paparazzi a lot.
anyway a bit off topic there.
I'm glad the dirty hoor isn't allowed anywhere else, cos you know he'd be doing exactly the same wherever he goes.
who amongst us hasn't been touched up or inappropriately propositioned or approached as children
Hmm, fortunately it seems to have been stamped out in the main.
I was never touched up in any way as a child and I don't really know anyone of my own age who was. (i'm 26 now)
The only thin with that Morgor, is it will make it extremely difficult for him to be monitored. In the UK he probably has the best chance of been kept under strict supervision.
Mrs Cat – There seems to be an enormous similarity between Europe and Asia. In Ireland even today sexual abuse seems a fairly taboo topic. Victims are still stigmatised. I mean only 6% of rape cases are followed through and a perpetrator convicted. I think it is largely down to fear. The victim is afraid they will become outcastes and mainly by their own family or community for making such accusations. It seems the man’s innocence is often presumed. Why is that? Why do people ignore or dismiss such accusations? We are only moderately better than Asia in terms of supporting victims of sexual abuse plus even here the sentences if given at all are ridiculous.
Nonny
I thought he was dead.
In his early days of research, Freud intially found that the root of psychological distress or neurosis was found in folks who were molested as children. But then the numbers of patients grew to such a staggering degree that he abandoned the line of inquiry because the evidence would mean that many men were attacking children in their families. As a firm protector/upholder of patriarchy, he couldn't reconcile his patient's experiences with his theory and so abandoned it.
It seems the man’s innocence is often presumed. Why is that?
Ever heard the phrase "Innocent until proven guilty"?
I think rape cases can be difficult because it would often boil down to his word versus hers.
Meabh, do you know if more literature is available on the findings you speak of?
Morgor, what I meant was their claims are often dismissed.
Nonny
Medbh - Sorry I spell checked.
Medbh alludes to the reason why the paedophile abuses, because he in turn was abused. Do we believe this? And if we do, is there any sentiment to him as victim? Or have we an existential responsibility to ensure that the sins of the father are not handed down, to ensure that being a victim cannot be used as a defence for further abuse? Are we duty bound to visualise the abuser as an abused child too? I’m asking these questions particulaly in reference to pre-teen children. I believe there is something else, equally wretched, happening with teenagers being abused by older men, but it helps to differentiate never the less.
I think the red-tops will whip this up to a lucrative fury in keeping GG on the front pages, and we’re going to be assaulted by every type of low life comment over the coming days. And there will be witch hunts too, when the Nonnys of this world will come into their own.
It difficult to stay sane and clear about this, particularly in this country.
"And there will be witch hunts too, when the Nonnys of this world will come into their own."
What does that mean?
Nonny
i've been thinking of how to clarify my views on forced castration and the death penalty - because i believe in both for certain circumstances, including rape and abusing minors. but here's the thing - we (as in the human race) are incapable of objectively determining beyond the shadow of a doubt if a person should be put to death or castrated. if you make these things into law, they will be applied to people who don't deserve them (ie the wrongly accused).
so in theory - assuming a "perfect" system - i wholeheartedly agree with castration and the death penalty. but in practicality, i don't think that either should be instituted as law and then employed.
it all comes down to doing the best thing for the most people (which enters into a values/ethics debate) - is it better to castrate all pedophiles, knowing that some will have been innocent. or is it better to not castrate anyone, knowing that pedophiles will still be intact.
and what of female pedophiles?
I don't think castration of paedophiles actually works, or at least anything I've ever read-admittedly not that much- suggests it doesn't.
There is-to my mind- a very large difference in sexual interest in a child by an adult and sexual interest in a teenager by an adult. One might be distasteful, nobody likes the idea of a 30 year old with a fifteen year old, but it's hardly that shocking and in some cultures it is the norm. What is not normal is sexual interest in a prepubescent child. That is disgusting.
Female paedophiles are extremely rare, so I don't know what to say to that. I"d be against them too.
I think your commentary is inflammatory and rushed. Lacking context and sometimes dangerous. And this not about Nonny either, it’s about this paedophile and others like him, it's about a solution to the problem and to fabricate a solution, we must first of all understand the cause. Your comment read castration to me. I'd want to understand the root cause.
"There is-to my mind- a very large difference in sexual interest in a child by an adult and sexual interest in a teenager by an adult. One might be distasteful, nobody likes the idea of a 30 year old with a fifteen year old, but it's hardly that shocking and in some cultures it is the norm."
Merely "distasteful" certainly not. A 30 year old man sleeping with a 15 year old child is a paedophile. Their actions should not be made light of.
Nonny
Sniffe, my understanding of castration would be that it signifigantly reduces a man's sex drive and his ability to ejeculate, It would limit his ability to abuse or get a girl pregnant or pass on disease. Therefore keeping a would be victims safe. Are the innocent not paramount? Failing that I think life in prison is a must.
Understanding sexual abusers is important but dealing with them is of equal importance as is ensuring they don't subject anybody else to abuse.
Nonny
Are you talking to me S&C?
Nonny, we'll have to agree to disagree on that.
About the 15 age thing, in case I wasn't clear.
Nonny, Irish law allows 'non-carnal contact' with a 15 yr old, whereas 16 is the most common age of consent in western countries.
Do you believe a man should be castrated for sleeping with a 15 yr old girl who says she is 16 or 17?
Merely "distasteful" certainly not. A 30 year old man sleeping with a 15 year old child is a paedophile. Their actions should not be made light of.
That's a very black and white view when the reality is a bit more grey.
In previous eras people married young and died young, 14 year old girls had babies.
A 30 year old and a 15 year old is distasteful to me and illegal but it's a completely different kettle of fish to a 30 year old and an 8 year old.
HI FMC, my first comment was talking to you. I was answering Nonny in my second.
Nonny, I’m not talking about understanding the abusers, I want to understand WHY they abuse. And in these later comments, commenters are differentiating types of abuse, which is helpful in understanding why it happens.
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with your "30 year old with a 15 year old" comment, FMC. Just because somebody is developed past puberty, they are still children and need protection and I would agree with Nonny that this is rightly classified as pedophilia and goes waaay beyond distasteful.
Other comments: I'm completely against the death penalty under any circumstance - life imprisonment that lasts for life in a rat-infested hell hole is the only option imho.
Chemical castration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration
Docky it's disgusting and it's a whole lot of other things and I'm not making light of it in any way shape or form, and of course youngsters should be protected, but it is NOT paedophilia.
Do you believe a man should be castrated for sleeping with a 15 yr old girl who says she is 16 or 17?
No I do not, each case is different but in the case of Gary Glitter, convicted of having sex with a 10 year old and an 11 year old yes he should be castrated and locked up for life.
"Irish law allows 'non-carnal contact' with a 15 yr old, "
That is not necessarily through it depends on the situation.
"A 30 year old and a 15 year old is distasteful"
I cannot believe people think that!! Do you not think a 30-year-old should go to jail for that?
Nonny
** Dr. Jimmy we agree, high five :)
Nonny
Er yes Nonny, I do, it's illegal.
Hi FMC,
My first comment was comment # 22 to you.
Hi FMC,
My first comment was comment # 22 to you.
"Providing there is overwhelming evidence castration should be mandatory"
"Do you believe a man should be castrated for sleeping with a 15 yr old girl who says she is 16 or 17?
- No I do not, each case is different"
- do you see where I might be confused about your stance here nonny? Thats why I was arguing against castration. Also can you clarify "That is not necessarily through it depends on the situation" please?
Doc, I know the laws and age of consent are there for a reason, but following from that I'm pretty sure you'd have to lock up most fellas in Ireland for statutory rape and / or interfering with a minor at some point in their teenage years.
"Medbh alludes to the reason why the paedophile abuses, because he in turn was abused. Do we believe this? And if we do, is there any sentiment to him as victim? Or have we an existential responsibility to ensure that the sins of the father are not handed down, to ensure that being a victim cannot be used as a defence for further abuse?"
Ah, that makes more sense. I don't know S&C, there seems to be ample evidence that a lot of abused children go on to be abusers, that they are somehow caught up in a vicious cycle of abuse. But then there are a lot of abused children who don't so I can't say with all honestly that it should be a mitigating factor in anyone's defense. I believe that as a group paedophiles are some of the most manipulative cunning deviant people out there and as such they will use ANY ploy to wiggle out of s sentence, including inventing a 'tragic' history of abuse. I'm not saying they all do either, but it should be used to excuse the hurt they cause.
“Providing there is overwhelming evidence castration should be mandatory"
Mr Sheepy - I meant that with specific reference to the case we are discussing. But, I think you know that already, as usual it is the deliberate attempt to start an argument. I will not be dancing with you today Sir.
Mrs Cat – Oh I see I thought you meant it was ok, sorry. I would however consider them paedophiles. A rebellious, insecure meanager being perused by a 30 year old man seems like a paedophile to me. I also don't beleive the abused will to abusers.
Nonny
Either way, and more importantly, GARY GLITTER, the creep in question has always proclaimed his innocence, shown no remorse and is an absolute liability and I certainly wouldn't want him living next door to me, so I understand the reluctance of ANY country to allow him entry.
If you say so nonny, though that particular comment suggested a society-wide argument rather than case specific, as you were replying to a general ethical question that I had posed. But no-matter.
I very rarely start arguments with you nonny (despite the provocation). If you see your views being questioned as a personal attack rather than a discussion, then theres nothing I can do about that...
Would he likely face prison time if he was to come to the UK, or were there no british victims?
Damn straight Mrs Cat. I wouldn't fancy him living near me or any little nippers for that matter. I'd love to know how benificial the Sex offenders Register is. You never really see any reports on it.
Nonny
I don't believe he would Sheepie, but he would have to be monitored and he doesn't want that.
Aye Nonny, I wonder about it too.
Right enough of this talk. I’m outta here, emmmuah…may you all have a lovely weekend.
Nonny
It's THURSDAY!
Dirty weekend in the county for me tee he hee!
Nonny
chop his fu--in hands and his fu--in nob off the dirty tw-t
Seems to be a touchy subject:
You know, it's just sex; Which is, for the most part pretty boring. Nechrophilia I think is Dead boring, Incest is Relatively boring but Pedophilia, well that's just fucking childish!
Keeps the little Tai girls in a bit of pocket money now don't it?
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